ZeldaBlog

I Didn’t Like Twilight Princess

March 14th, 2007 at 10:26 pm by leinator

I didn’t like Twilight Princess. Actually, that isn’t true, but if you’re a member of any forums I post on, you’d know that there were many, many aspects of TP that disappointed me, and this has led many to believe I actually hate the game. I definitely enjoyed it, but there was just something lacking. As I played through TP, I tried hard to convince myself it was the greatest thing ever. This was what I’d been waiting for for four years. The game wasn’t just supposed to be good, it was supposed to be groundbreaking. But about halfway through I realized that I was actually trying to convince myself that it was a good game, and I also realized this wasn’t a good sign.

Don’t get me wrong, gameplay-wise, it was addicting. Music-wise, this MIDI is the closest thing we’ll ever get to orchestration, and the new Lake Hylia theme is a beautiful addition to the Zelda music hall of fame. But I just didn’t have that feeling. That feeling that I was battling my way through an epic adventure, the feeling that I was actually a part of something huge going on in that fictional world we call Hyrule, that feeling that an insignificant human being like myself was saving a world and fighting for an ideal. As I struck that final blow to Ganon and watched the last scene, I had that faint feeling of emotion and accomplishment, but I simply didn’t get that “I just beat a Zelda game” feeling. As I sat and watched the credits roll, I tried again. I tried to reflect on the adventure, but I simply couldn’t, because that feeling was non-existent. The credits ended, and I got up and sat down at the computer and did some homework. I didn’t get that “moment” after you turn of your system where you sit down on your bed and stare at the ceiling and smile, realizing your life just improved because you finished that game. The only question at that point that was in my mind, was simply “why?” Over the next week I thought long and hard about this, and a few things came to mind. I’m not going to attempt to convince you that you shouldn’t like TP anymore, I’m just trying to relate my own personal thoughts on the game.

We love the underdog. From famous stories like The Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia, we see heroes from small beginnings rising up to save their world from destruction. From Zelda’s creation, Link has always been that underdog. A child who’s never really wielded a sword, never really done anything heroic, wasn’t born into a family of heroes. As Shakespeare eloquently put it in Twelfth Night, “Some men are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.” The average human obviously hopes for the latter. We all have the fervent hope in our mundane lives that perhaps at some point something will make us great, allow us do be in the history books as someone who changed the world. It’s part of the concept of immersion, which TML defined in one of his previous articles. Link has always traditionally been that average child without training and without heroic strength that has been thrust into a great adventure to save the world. TP, however, changes this mechanic completely. He starts with previous sword training, he’s much older, he’s not so innocent, and he’s already prepared for what lies in store. He’s already a “Manly man,” an Indiana Jones type hero. We simply don’t relate to this. We look up too it, which is why we so enjoy movies like Indiana Jones in the first place, but this seemingly small issue subtracts a whole lot of the immersion element from the game.

And the third and final blow to the “Zelda feel” of the game was the complete lack of character-developing side-quests. Some of the absolute most memorable moments in Ocarina of Time were those few that didn’t even have to do with the main story. Rescuing Epona from Lon-Lon, meeting Malon, handing out masks to some of the more eccentric secondary characters, all of these things made that game truly great. I don’t think I even have to argue that the same holds true for Majora’s Mask. In fact, that game would be virtually worthless without its side-plots. After beating Twilight Princess, I was extremely disappointed when I realized the deepest side-quests were collecting poes for a golden statue and getting bugs for a strangely creepy little girl. Sure, I enjoyed them, but they were definitely just collection challenges, they didn’t have story or depth too them.

Again, I’m definitely not trying to convince you to feel negatively about the game, and I’m not going to turn into some sort of nerd-raging cynic who spends his time on forums ranting about how much TP sucked. I enjoyed the game, and by gaming standards it was very well done. I just thought it lacked a lot of the feel and heart of older Zelda games. I’m sure you all have this image of me smugly searching through the game trying to find reasons it was horrible just so I can write a controversial article, but frankly, I tried hard to enjoy the game. It was only after I beat it that I realized I didn’t enjoy it too much, and only after that did I start looking for the reasons that I didn’t like it. That said, I’m definitely looking forward to the next major Zelda game. Nintendo has already stated that they’ll be going in a different direction, and I’m looking forward to a fresh concept applied to the series. My only hope is that for the next one they put as much work into writing and creativity that they put into game-play and graphics.

Filed under Twilight Princess, Editorials, Legend of Zelda, Spoilers

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48 Messages from the Gossip Stones about “I Didn’t Like Twilight Princess”

    Comments

    First off, welcome to the ‘Blog, my friend!

    Anyway, as much as I hate to say it, I disagree for a multitude of reasons. X) Granted, your opinion is perfectly as valid as the next, and you can like different things than I like, but I do disagree nevertheless.

    I think that Link still is the underdog in this game, truth be told. I mean, he’s not a knight, he’s never had any belief that he was this great and noble warrior, and he certainly didn’t expect to be wandering into this great quest. But even then, I think pairing Link up against Ganondorf and his horde, no matter who Link was to start, casts him as the underdog. What you can say, perhaps, is that Link didn’t represent you, and that’s fine, but he did represent me.

    I could add more, but it’s rather moot for me to put up any more protestation, so I shan’t. ;) Hopefully our own horde won’t come down on you too hard for your blatantly wrong beliefs.

    YES! Oh god yes I love you! I think I dislike it a little more than you do, though…

    After all these years waiting, I wasn’t blown away. Sure, I liked it, hell, I had heaps of fun playing it at times! But it was so lacking sometimes for someone who loves a good story.

    Watch out, way too long semi-rant coming!

    I had a problem with the story and characters. I play Zelda almost entirely for Link. Take him out and Nintendo have one less fan. That’s practically what they did. The WHOLE story revolved around Midna. There are certain enemies who don’t even speak to Link! He’s completely ignored while they babble on with Midna. That really took a lot of magic away for me. I ADORE Link, and he got nothing. Sure he had the kids and Ilia, but that’s my next point (kinda).

    Link’s story (if you could call it a story), revolved around saving the kids and Ilia. Once that was done, his part was basically over, no more cutscenes with him as the major player, no-one really bothered to talk to him anymore. He was just there to serve Midna, which is a POOR POOR POOR character basis. Shame on the writers for not seeing that! That’s one of the worst errors a writer can make, and they did it with my fav character, which made me a very sad girl. :___;

    Now, as I said before, Link’s story involved the kids, and mainly Ilia. I got NO satisfaction out of this. Colin was a droopy-eyed pussy, Talo was a brat, Malo was a freak and Beth was just boring. Ilia’s a story for later, kay? How am I meant to feel for these ugly ugly UGLY obnoxious characters, let alone get my ass into gear to save them? When I did, I just shrugged and went on to the next storyline. That’s never happened to me in a Zelda game before. I’ve always loved the characters and adored saving/helping them. However, the kids weren’t the worst offenders.

    You know when I mentioned Ilia before? Here’s her section! Never before have I despised a Zelda character. Sure, I didn’t care for the kids, and no, I don’t hate Tingle. Ilia really hurt TP for me. I couldn’t believe that the writers could create such and empty shell of a character, but they did! She was the ultimate cliche, the childhood love interest who gets kidnapped and then something even MORE cliche happens to her down the track. Did I mention she had a heart of gold? Honestly, writers, when are you going to get over the pathetic female character? I know you made Midna and Telma, but that’s no excuse. Was I meant to like her? Was I meant to shed a tear for her when I helped her? It was empty, even annoying moments like Ilia’s storyline that dragged TP down. Not until every major character actually has substance can we ever call Zelda’s story “epic’. I was digusted when it won best writing and narration awards. Shows what worth the videogame industry puts into real stories.

    Gameplay was great. Graphics were great. Story and characters? No. Sure, you can point out Midna, Telma, Renado, etc, but a few good characters aren’t enough to save a game. The story left a lot to desire. When the plot was first announced I was doubtful of it. I can see why now. Yes, TP was good, but it couldn’t rely on the “first-experience” feeling that allowed OoT to escape its pitfalls in story and character.

    Hopefully, the next Zelda will solve some story issues. It doesn’t need to consume the game, it just needs to get better. And god, give Link a STRONG romantic interest! No, Midna doesn’t count, for reasons I don’t want to spoil here. Here’s for hoping for the near impossible!

    And no, I’m not trying to pick a fight. So don’t even try. :D

    TP… well… i did not enjoy it nearly as much as i thought i would. don’t get me wrong, the introduction of some new items were cool (coughspinnercough), but what was the overall point?! if Link did not manage to save Hyrule, then the worst thing that happens is that the world is caught in perpetual twilight, and everybody goes on with their normal lives. i think i remeber midna saying that what had happened to them was unbeknownst to them. basically, the ppl in tp had no idea they were spirits. they went on with thier everyday lives as if nothing happened. so there really is no point in wanting to save them.

    my favorite moment in tp…. was the palace of twilight…
    the calming music… the darkness of the clouds against the bright, fierce sky… it wasn’t just perpetual twilight… it was perpetual beauty. it remended me of my life and how lucky i am to know all you ppl. i like you guys! :D

    uberzeldamaster said:

    my favorite moment in tp…. was the palace of twilight…
    the calming music… the darkness of the clouds against the bright, fierce sky… it wasn’t just perpetual twilight… it was perpetual beauty. it remended me of my life and how lucky i am to know all you ppl. i like you guys! :D

    Ok don’t get all sappy now.
    I agree with Reihz on the point of the children. They were horrible. Illia was ugly and as you said, an empty shell, that whole anesia thing was completely stupid. Talo was definitely that kind of person who struts around like he owns the place and thinks he’s the best,Which annoys the crap out of me. Malo was the most demonic little 3-year-old I’ve ever seen, just his face mad me want to not save him, but then his attitude towards his only customer and his “friends” made me want to kill him myself.
    The game was fun and the final battle was awesome, but yes, the character could use definite improvements.

    As for a “New direction” I’m hopeing beyond all hope that it means first person motion mimicking sword play with enemies that can actually kill you once in a while! you know where you have block and parry, and strike at just the right second. And also, bosses without giant eyes. I don’t think there was a single boss in TP(aside from Zant and G-Dogg) who didn’t have a giant eye to shoot.

    Ironically, Malo was my favorite part of TP.

    I’m going to go against the general ranting here and say I rather liked the kids and Ilia. Certainly the children had childish faults, they’re children! The fact that they were a touch exaggerated is simply a literary technique; whether you appreciate it or not is largely a matter of taste. Personally, I found Malo’s freakish appearance and Napolean complex fascinating, in a scary sort of way. Colin’s frailness worked precisely because he was able to overcome his weakness and protect his friends, even if it was at the cost of his own safety.

    As for Ilia, what’s wrong with “having a heart of gold”? I found Ilia’s amnesiac episode and the subsequent quest to restore her memory very engaging. Far from being pathetic, Ilia poured herself out for others time and again despite circumstances which most people would take as reason to think of themselves as victims in need of saving. She displays a type of courage which transcends surroundings. If such characters are cliche, it’s because they’re so good that they’ve been used throughout the ages. Please, don’t mistake timelessness for emptiness.

    In some ways I did find the game somewhat lacking, while all of the other characters apart from Link and Midna were interesting not one of them sticks in the mind in the same way that the characters from OoT, MM and even WW did. One of the aspects of many Zelda games I have always enjoyed were the tradeing side quests, such as the one where you eventually get the Bigoron Sword in OoT, but this was strangely absent from Twilight Princess, sure the Bug and Poe quests were interesting but it wasnt anywhere near as enjoyable, on the whole I did enjoy the game but I honestly feel it lacked that certain feeling, the one thats so hard to put into words, though im pretty sure that you guys have fealt it for yourselves in the past.

    Leinator, I’m said to say that most of your points I really don’t agree with. For all its faults, TP is still the best game ever. You don’t think they put good writing and creativity into the game? Do not forget that no Zelda game has had a more complex and well-written story than TP’s. I do agree with you on the sidequest front. There’s hardly anything to do after you beat the game, and the Heart Pieces are so easy to find because the Fortune Teller shows you where they all are.

    Robert-UK said:

    One of the aspects of many Zelda games I have always enjoyed were the tradeing side quests, such as the one where you eventually get the Bigoron Sword in OoT, but this was strangely absent from Twilight Princess, sure the Bug and Poe quests were interesting but it wasnt anywhere near as enjoyable, on the whole I did enjoy the game but I honestly feel it lacked that certain feeling, the one thats so hard to put into words, though im pretty sure that you guys have fealt it for yourselves in the past.

    No trading sidequest? This reminds me of something. I found out that saving Ilia’s memory is actually a sidequest. You never have to complete it to beat the game! Just show Impaz the Dominion Rod after getting Ilia’s charm, and you can skip right to finding the six Sky Letters without showing the charm to Ilia.

    Just because TP happened to have a bit more dialogue in certain places doesn’t automatically make the story more interesting or better written. In many ways, I think Link’s Awakening had one of the best written and most emotion stories of any Zelda game, despite it’s simplicity.

    Never played LA so I can’t argue that.

    I can only agree completely since I feel the same exact way. It’s a very odd feeling… You want to feel a certain way about the game, but you just can’t… You’re angry about so many things, but you can’t really be angry, it’s… strange, for sure. One of my biggest reasons is that I think the world feels so dead… while it isn’t really even that dead… and yet it is…

    I really just want another Majora’s Mask like story/world… it’ll always remain my nr 1.

    They should have had a random little cottage in the middle of hyrule field where some side-quest giver lived.

    I actually very much enjoyed Twilight Princess. As others have stated above, I find my only true problem is, indeed, the lack of sidequests. Then again, though, how many actual sidequests are there in A Link to the Past, which is nearly-universally recognized as the “best 2D Zelda”? I can’t think of too many, considering anything close to a sidequest in that game is actually essential to beating it. If you really want sidequests, I guess you can always play Wind Waker again? I never understood why that game got bashed so badly by the fandom when it was, honestly, a very fun (albeit easy) and challenging game with numerous sidequests…

    Reihz said:
    You know when I mentioned Ilia before? Here’s her section! Never before have I despised a Zelda character. Sure, I didn’t care for the kids, and no, I don’t hate Tingle.

    i agree with you on that, not only did she look like a man but she kinda made the game annoying..im sorry thst i said that i hope malon isnt in it again because they use her too much :x have malon in any game just never bring ilia back ever again!

    Shinigami Ninja said: Malo was the most demonic little 3-year-old I’ve ever seen, just his face mad me want to not save him, but then his attitude towards his only customer and his “friends” made me want to kill him myself.

    yes….same here :)

    twilight princess was lacking in alot of areas.one of the biggest flaws I found was that the NPCs were so obsessed with there individual problems that they never had anything to say that wasnt plot related.I also found that there was a very small amount of NPCs in the game (well….a small amount of NPCs gifted with speach ;) ).also some areas (gerudo desert,hyrule field,twilight realm,etc) felt really empty.there was nothing in them and it made it really hard to stay in those places longer then need be :P .I dont like what happened to lake hylia either -_-’ ……go hold your carnival somewhere else,clowns (and….stupid bird).also as has been said already,there were hardly any side quests or mini-games in TP .not that I dont like the game,I just think they could have done better.

    Reihz said:
    And god, give Link a STRONG romantic interest! No, Midna doesn’t count, for reasons I don’t want to spoil here. Here’s for hoping for the near impossible!

    And no, I’m not trying to pick a fight. So don’t even try. :D

    I- *reads last part* ….hmmm,fine……ill let that slide :P .

    Shinigami Ninja said:Malo was the most demonic little 3-year-old I’ve ever seen, just his face mad me want to not save him, but then his attitude towards his only customer and his “friends” made me want to kill him myself.

    here I thought I was the only one with that idea ;) .

    before I forget,did anybody else think the ooca-whatevers hurt the game? I for one cant stand them,and I actually found out I hate them more than tingle :o !

    I liked Ilia and the children… Im a minority

    I honestly believe that, the more you expect Twilight Princess to be a mirror image of Ocarina of Time, the less you will like it. The more you allow Twilight Princess to be its own man game, the more you will like it.

    I’ve heard the “Don’t compare it to Oot argument before,” but frankly, the only way you measure a games place in a series is by comparing it to other games in the series. Also, Oot is just one that I’ve compared it too. Almost every zelda game so far has captured that “zelda feel” except for TP.

    When we say “we want something greater than or equal too Oot,” we don’t mean that we somehow want an exact copy of Oot. All modern zelda games are virtually copies of AlttP anyway, but that’s another issue. What I mean is that TP should’ve taken a step forward and retained the retainable qualities that Oot, MM, and WW had. The massive amount of NPC’s, almost all with some sort of backstory or sidequest that could be completed. Oot founded this, MM improved upon it, and I’d say that WW maintained that improvement. TP took a huge step back in the sidequest department, and the NPC’s depth suffered as well. This is what I mean when I say “retained retainable qualities.” I don’t want a game that copies Oot’s story, just one that builds off of what made that game so great in the first place, heart. MM built off of it and WW built off of it. TP took a step back.

    I actually enjoyed the beginning better then the rest of the game. The pretty NPCs! The new control system! The expressions during the cutscene when Illia takes Epona away! Midna’s dialouge! The rest after that was kinda disappointing.

    I agree i relized that when i beat the game that i didnt like it anymore for reasons i dont know it just didnt have that feel

    Huh, now that I think about it, yeah. Of course, no Zelda game comes before Majora’s Mask in my book, but I would have to agree. I started playing Twilight Princess for the second time a little while ago. First time through, it’s great! A friend commented that I was playing it sort of…*cough cough* religiously. The second time, however…Maybe it was because I knew all of the answers to the dungeon puzzles and didn’t find it a challenge anymore, but I am having troubles finishing it again.

    Ah well. Still haven’t gotten through a certain dungeon that isn’t really a dungeon…*is afraid that anything might be a spoiler* XD

    I agree with most of the comments in the leading part of the article.

    Even though, as TML pointed out, Link is still technically an underdog, he doesn’t feel like one, and I think that hinders the game, because it stunts possible character growth for Link.

    And I agree with the lack of character development-in the second half of the game. The first half was lovely. There was character driven stuff going on all the way up till the Master Sword, and then suddenly, it disappears until the Ilia quest. I mean, each Mirror quest was connected to an individual, but the only one where you had more than one dialog sequence with that person was for the City in the Sky, again, due to the Ilia quest.

    And as was pointed out, besides the two collection quests, the game lacked a lot of the “small tasks” that seem to abound in other recent Zelda games.

    I’m going to have to disagree with everyone else’s characterization of the children. Two of my favorite moments in the game

    (sorry for the double post, I accidentally hit Submit in the middle of my comment)

    …were the jousting on the Bridge of Eldin, and the Telma Escort mission, which were both events that were specifically connected to the children. I don’t, I guess its a matter of taste, but I loved the kids. Especially Malo. He’s a perfect example of what makes Zelda characters great, that sorta absurdist humor that goes along with most of the best Zelda characters.

    I think another part of the game which leads to this sense that it is lacking something, is that everything bad has already happened before the game begins. Kakariko has already been sacked. The Hidden Village has already been massacred. Zelda has already surrendered. Queen Zora has already been killed. The Goron’s patriarch is already under the power of the Infused Shadow. Twilight is already covering everything outside the Odron and Faron provinces. So the whole game, things are getting better, and at least I lost the sense of impending tragedy.

    The obvious reason, at least in my opinion, for this “lacking” element is the transition to the Wii. At GDC, Aonuma talked about how the end of the development cycle was spent making the Wii controls work well, instead of adding other final touches. Since the dungeon sequence in the game was pretty spot on, I can only assume that was pretty well set up, and that they had planned to fill out side quest ideas at the end, but due to the wii conversion, were unable to do so.

    In the end, I still think it’s a wonderful game, but it is fairly easy to see places where things could have been done better.

    The game was pretty good for me….the only thing i absoelutely HATED(with fire eyes) was the ending. llia and Link?!?! C’mon!Just one time, GET WITH THE FRECKIN” PRINCESS ALREADY,LINK!!! That’s all i want from Nintendo!Just that one ending…(drifts away in hopeless daydreaming)

    Still, th only games that i would compare TP with would only be OoT,which will always be the best,and WW.TP should’ve had some better side-quests,or at least one with the trading in them.Almost all the other games have had one,so why just leave this one out of the picture?! Malo was also just an annoying parasite that i just wanted to flick into oblivion,due to all the running around, saving all these lazy people’s buttocks.Can’t they just save themselves a time or so?

    Fine,I’ll end my ranting about how this game rocked. I’m still a LinkXZelda shipper!!! :P

    t_mo_therapy said:

    I think another part of the game which leads to this sense that it is lacking something, is that everything bad has already happened before the game begins.

    good point,I hadnt considered that before now.

    master of windwaker said:TP should’ve had some better side-quests,or at least one with the trading in them.Almost all the other games have had one,so why just leave this one out of the picture?!

    why indeed? perhaps so that the octorocks dont get lonely ;) ?

    • 26. Ops says:

    Now that I read this, I realize it DID lack that feeling. The feeling of epicness. I’ve got to say, the sidequests sucked. It seemed to me the only ones were the Poe and Bug ones. Nothing really fun to do after the game except fish and try to get out of bounds with jumping. The Cave of Ordeals really just bored me. And the dugeons in the second half I dreaded after playing through the second time.(Except Snowpeak Mansion. I loved that.) I absolutely hated the Temple of Time, just because of how repetitive and time-consuming it was. The City in the Sky was just plain out annoying. And Arbiter’s Grounds was just… not that fun.

    However, I loved the monkey theme in the Forest temple. And my friends and I love to just go to the Goron Mine’s and mess around on the magnetic places. The Zora Armor was my favorite thing to wear. It just looks cool on Link.

    Also, Zelda could have played a MUCH bigger role… she was basically only a minor character in this. And Midna seemed to be taking Link’s place… no one cared about Link, just Midna.

    The only way I really compared it to OoT was geographically. I mean, everything seems to be different, yet in the same places. Basically, as if time naturally changed Hyrule.
    Examples:
    Faron Woods-Kokiri Woods
    Fountain is still in middle of Castletown.
    Kakiriko(shut up, I can’t spell it.) is still at the foot of Mountain.
    Goron Village about midway up Mountain.
    Lake Hylia eroded down over time.
    The campsite at Gerudo desert could be the Gerudo , abondoned. Same with Arbiter’s grounds and Spirit Temple.
    Lon Lon Ranch is now (sort of) Ordon.(Though not in the same place.)

    I think the only actual new places are Snowpeak and the City in the sky.

    Overall, I loved this game. This is my 2nd favorite(next to OoT). But it just lacks that feeling…

    leinator said:

    I’ve heard the “Don’t compare it to Oot argument before,” but frankly, the only way you measure a games place in a series is by comparing it to other games in the series.

    The only way of measuring how good a game truly is is by seeing how much fun you have while you’re playing it… and then averaging that quantity over the vast number of people who played the game. Comparing it to other games is not and should not be put into that equation. Ever.

    Ranking? Fine. Determining if you like a game or not? Never.

    Ah, but I specifically said “games place in a series.” Most of us here on ZB are trying to decide where it ranks on the scale of zelda games. On the scale of games themselves, it’s really a variety of factors and comparison, but on the scale of zelda games themselves, of course comparison to Oot is required.

    I agree completely though in terms of deciding whether or not it’s a good game. To say “It wasn’t as good as Oot, therefore it’s a bad game” would be a horribly flawed argument.

    While I loved Twilight Princess, it failed to grab me and pull me in like the last few games before it, more specifically The Wind Waker. Besides Colin, Ilia and a few of the village kids there wasn’t much build up for the other characters for you to actually care for them. I didn’t mind that Link was already some what experienced in combat.

    I think another problem for me was that while Hyrule was gigantic, it was too empty. Its like Nintendo spent too much time making sure they had lots of huge dungeons that they forgot Zelda fans also like many villages and towns packed with many different NPC’s.

    You also got to love how Hyrule Castle fell, and almost no one inside Castle Town knew or cared about it.

    Good article though!

    I don’t want to be one of those people who rant incessantly about the game and how I loved it and all. I do feel that way, but my fingers hurt and I don’t want to type all about it. =)
    Anyway, I loved the game. I thought it had some ingeneous new features… like the Dark Bug thing. (Heh, I got stuck on the Lake Hylia bug vanquising, and I stopped playing for over a month. I’m one of those people who gets mental blocks.)
    But I feel that you are wrong. It was a great game with a *Naviing* good plot. I dunno what to think about this whole artical. It evoked and prodded things in me, like my lunch.
    Seriously. I think you should have just enjoyed it and not think about personal disappointments. Have fun!
    =)

    leinator said:

    Ah, but I specifically said “games place in a series.”

    And you originally quoted me on a statement that referenced how much someone would like the game. ;) I was merely restating my original quote with more words in it this time around.

    • 32. Ops says:

    I do believe TML and leinator are getting edgy.

    TP never impressed me. As much as I enjoyed it, it didn’t impress me like Majora’s Mask and Wind Waker(Ocarina of Time didn’t impress me, it felt too dull but that’s another story) I agree with most of the things you said.

    This reply isn’t going to be very meaningful because I’m in a different time zone and (whatever the forum clock says) it’s way past my bedtime. I will add one comment though:

    I can’t help but admire Malo. How can you not be awed by someone who, at an age where most can’t speak clearly, has subverted the economy of an entire country? How can you avoid being stunned by the fact that he has apparently perfected subliminal psychotropic advertising techniques in a period where advanced economic theory is only starting to be glimpsed?

    How can you keep your jaw from falling to the floor when you witness the brilliance of this mastermind who (I think) poses a greater threat to monopoly-free markets throughout the multiverse than a hundred Ganondorfs could ever hope to?

    Nice article, though I also have to disagree on a few things.

    I understand why you felt the way you did about Link. This was obviously an older, more mature Link who had at least some knowledge of sword fighting, and a larger sense of responsibility, as scene in the first part of the game in Ordon Village. But I’m not convinced that he wasn’t an underdog - he may have been mature and had training with the blade (and other weapons, like that useless slingshot), but I doubt he was prepared to be thrown into this gigantic adventure in a world, or two different worlds, he had never seen before (keep in mind he had never been to Hyrule). That’s an extremely large task of having to save both the Twilight Realm and Hyrule, thrown onto his shoulders all of a sudden, against an unknown enemy, or two essentially of great strength, and even at his age and level of skill, I’m not quite sure he was fully ready for it. On a side note, WW’s Link also had sword training before heading off on his adventure.

    I thought TP had a Zelda-feel to it, but I guess that can vary from how we interpret the ‘feel’ to be. I myself thought that it was similar enough to other Zelda games that I didn’t feel it was much too out there for me (I remember my initial feeling for Majora’s Mask was a bit indifferent because it wasn’t the exact same style as the others; I grew to love it however) yet had parts of originality and development. I thought the story was very well done, especially in comparison to others. For the most part, it was well thought out and threw in a few twists. Music was good, gameplay very nice, difficulty level acceptable (some parts a little too easy though), and graphics satisfying.

    But I definitely agree with you in the sense that there were not enough sidequests. I loved the Hidden Skills, some of the games were fun, and of course, the Cave of Ordeals was highly amusing. Other than that, the entire Magic Armor dealy was a bit dull (though I love the Malo Mart), I wasn’t particularly fond of the bug hunting, and the Poe hunting grew tiresome when you had to wait for night to roll around. I can’t seem to remember, but was TP the only game to have Pieces of Heart in the dungeons? I think that really took a lot away from it, because you get 16 Pieces of Heart from the dungeons alone (not including Hyrule Castle), and thus lots of possibilities in the environment or in sidequests to earn Heart Pieces are lost. And I also concur that very few sidequests involved character development for Link, or for secondary characters for that matter.

    I personally was disappointed not to see Magic/Magic Meter - that’s something from previous Zelda games that I heavily enjoyed. I am not sure if it would have made the game better necessarily, but amusing nonetheless.

    In regards to some other topics, I actually really liked the children. I thought they provided, though however briefly, the much needed secondary character development missing from the sidequests. Each one in one way or another grows up; Talo becomes more responsible and looks after the village; Malo starts his own business; Beth becomes more caring towards others (this one is extremely arguable); and of course, Colin gains courage and the will to fight in dangerous situations, all who were inspired by Link, their hero. I thought it was really cute, and it supported the plot in a large way.

    I liked Illia also. She seemed like a Saria, even Aryll type of character, and also supported the plot greatly as well. On top of that, I think she brought a lot of emotion and expression into the game, its characters, especially to Link, and overall atmosphere. In particular, I like how Nintendo slapped the Illia-lost-her-memory twist [nearly right] after that creepy Lakebed scene - I thought it added to the sense of darkness enshrouding around you, yet provided a small bit of hope and motivation for your future. That’s just my opinion though.

    Consider my rant complete…for now. X)

    Ops said:

    I do believe TML and leinator are getting edgy.

    Nah. Unless I say I’m serious about something, I’m 99.37% of the time saying it in good humour. Especially if I use :) or ;) smilies!

    Link seemed like a more lively character in OoT
    for one, TP Link SMILES to much, like ALL the time
    OoT Link, when he came up on a boss, we got to see his “WTF” face
    TP Link is like “I can take you”
    He just seems way to egotistical for my liking
    Like, the epic battle for the kid cutscene, where he comes charging through, all “I’m so manly” lmao
    (to be honest, the only new thing I liked was his tunic design)

    I love TP to the death. It is one of my fav’s… I do like MM better though. ;)

    Light Walker said:

    This reply isn’t going to be very meaningful because I’m in a different time zone and (whatever the forum clock says) it’s way past my bedtime. I will add one comment though:

    I can’t help but admire Malo. How can you not be awed by someone who, at an age where most can’t speak clearly, has subverted the economy of an entire country? How can you avoid being stunned by the fact that he has apparently perfected subliminal psychotropic advertising techniques in a period where advanced economic theory is only starting to be glimpsed?

    How can you keep your jaw from falling to the floor when you witness the brilliance of this mastermind who (I think) poses a greater threat to monopoly-free markets throughout the multiverse than a hundred Ganondorfs could ever hope to?

    I agree, I actually thought malo was one of the best secondary characters in any zelda game. And besides, having that cynical, egotistical genius personality in a baby is just hilarious.

    Ops said:
    And Midna seemed to be taking Link’s place… no one cared about Link, just Midna.

    thats because he was always a wolf….and….well wolfs arnt so good at talking :) .

    Ops said:
    I think the only actual new places are Snowpeak and the City in the sky.

    if you look around the yetis mansion it kind of looks like it could be an older hyrule castle.I was thinking maybe the OOT castle?

    Starlight Serenade said:I think you should have just enjoyed it and not think about personal disappointments.

    thats next to impossible though.as you play through the game you cant help but picture whats going to come next (especially when they hint at things to come) and when it finally does come its sometimes less then what you had imagined.by the time you win the game all those disapointing moments (*caugh*shiekah village*caugh*) can make you wonder what went wrong in the game :P .I do beleive thats the whole point of this article :? .

    Light Walker said:How can you keep your jaw from falling to the floor when you witness the brilliance of this mastermind who (I think) poses a greater threat to monopoly-free markets throughout the multiverse than a hundred Ganondorfs could ever hope to?

    you are the one who makes it happen,not malo :P .if you dont participate in his fun little games he wouldnt get anywhere.

    uberzeldamaster said:

    TP… well… i did not enjoy it nearly as much as i thought i would. don’t get me wrong, the introduction of some new items were cool (coughspinnercough), but what was the overall point?! if Link did not manage to save Hyrule, then the worst thing that happens is that the world is caught in perpetual twilight, and everybody goes on with their normal lives. i think i remeber midna saying that what had happened to them was unbeknownst to them. basically, the ppl in tp had no idea they were spirits. they went on with thier everyday lives as if nothing happened. so there really is no point in wanting to save them.

    my favorite moment in tp…. was the palace of twilight…
    the calming music… the darkness of the clouds against the bright, fierce sky… it wasn’t just perpetual twilight… it was perpetual beauty. it remended me of my life and how lucky i am to know all you ppl. i like you guys! :D

    The part of Everybody’s lives going on is actually wrong. I thought that too, until I relplayed the second twilight part. If you remember, one of the Twilight Messenges (Pretty sure thats what they’re called) turned some of the Villagers Twilight. Same probably would have happened to Hyrule Town.

    Oh, and in case anybody cares, sorry for my blog hiatus. I had other things to do (mainly getting the flu a complete overload of schoolwork.)

    Oh, and I like you too, sure.

    • 42. Ops says:

    Ninja Lord Kakashi said:

    Ops said:
    And Midna seemed to be taking Link’s place… no one cared about Link, just Midna.

    thats because he was always a wolf….and….well wolfs arnt so good at talking :) .

    Ops said:
    I think the only actual new places are Snowpeak and the City in the sky.

    if you look around the yetis mansion it kind of looks like it could be an older hyrule castle.I was thinking maybe the OOT castle?

    Starlight Serenade said:I think you should have just enjoyed it and not think about personal disappointments.

    thats next to impossible though.as you play through the game you cant help but picture whats going to come next (especially when they hint at things to come) and when it finally does come its sometimes less then what you had imagined.by the time you win the game all those disapointing moments (*caugh*shiekah village*caugh*) can make you wonder what went wrong in the game :P .I do beleive thats the whole point of this article :? .

    Light Walker said:How can you keep your jaw from falling to the floor when you witness the brilliance of this mastermind who (I think) poses a greater threat to monopoly-free markets throughout the multiverse than a hundred Ganondorfs could ever hope to?

    you are the one who makes it happen,not malo :P .if you dont participate in his fun little games he wouldnt get anywhere.

    Yeah, well, they could have like PET him or rubbed his stomach or gave some sort of acknowledgement. A kick to the head would have been better than talking to an imp instead of a wolf… that sounded better before I typed it. And also, I thought the Yeti Mansion looked like a castle too, but then again it can’t be because it isn’t even close to castle town.

    Ops said:
    Yeah, well, they could have like PET him or rubbed his stomach or gave some sort of acknowledgement. A kick to the head would have been better than talking to an imp instead of a wolf… that sounded better before I typed it.

    I just cant see that for some reason :P …..

    sages:whos a good wolf? you are link! yes you are! *pets link* ohhhh,what are you-OUCH,my mask face!

    besides,with the sages maybe being an exeption,almost everybody else is suposed to be afraid of him when hes a wolf (kind of a bad move on nintendos part eh?).also my new dream is to talk to an imp :D !

    Ops said:
    And also, I thought the Yeti Mansion looked like a castle too, but then again it can’t be because it isn’t even close to castle town.

    well it is possible that the hyrule castle in twilight princess is different from the one in oot.if you look at the size of hyrule castle from OOT,then compare it to the yetis mansion in twilight princess,they look to be about the same size.on the other hand,if you look at the hyrule castle in OOT,then compare it to the hyrule castle in twilight princess,its pretty easy to see they couldnt possibly be the same thing (even if the king ordered an expansion be put on the castle :P ).

    I perfectly understand your point, leinator because I, too, was missing something all the time and cannot really explain what. A feeling, a warmth.
    I agree with the lack of interesting sidequests but I don’t think Link was a problem. He was a simple cowboy without a clue about the huge world around him.

    leinator said:

    Ironically, Malo was my favorite part of TP.

    Malo reminds me of Ezlo. They both treat Link likes he’s stupid, but behind his back they respect him.

    Pascal said:

    I perfectly understand your point, leinator because I, too, was missing something all the time and cannot really explain what. A feeling, a warmth. I agree with the lack of interesting sidequests but I don’t think Link was a problem. He was a simple cowboy without a clue about the huge world around him.

    I think it needed more of a challenge in the dungeons, and some replay value. I love games that have replay value, instead of being stuck at the last part before the end.

    sniper said:

    Pascal said:

    I perfectly understand your point, leinator because I, too, was missing something all the time and cannot really explain what. A feeling, a warmth. I agree with the lack of interesting sidequests but I don’t think Link was a problem. He was a simple cowboy without a clue about the huge world around him.

    I think it needed more of a challenge in the dungeons, and some replay value. I love games that have replay value, instead of being stuck at the last part before the end.

    i completely agree. most games have the ability to be played again in a harder version *coughlegendofzeldatheoriginalcough* and *coughthewindwakercough*. of course, as TML said, we need to stop comparing games to loz, oot. i just played loz, the original, and im level 8, and im stuck. im freakin caught in a snag cause if i leave the dungeon, all the enemies come back, and im out of life potions and down to 3 hearts. if i compare that to loz oot, i would call it uber uber uber hard. if i compare it to nothing, than i call it enjoyable, challenging, and a good game all around. but as i was saying, more zelda games need a “second quest”. the first is not challenging enough.

    I skimmed the comments section, and peoples biggest complaint is the lack of side quests. I seem to remember nintendo saying that you were going to be able to download extra contant for some games. I also remember twilight princess maybe being one of those games. Maybe they will put more side quests in that way? I think I read this on zelda universe?

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