ZeldaBlog

The Balance of the (Tri)Force

February 10th, 2007 at 12:39 am by The Missing Link

Four consoles and seven Sages ago, the Legend of Zelda series was simply what it’s title declared it to be, a legend about Zelda. It was about a very simple story about three magical triangles, a woman who was trying to defend them, a man who wanted to take them, and a hero who fought to get them back. My, how things have changed since then! The way it looks these days, Zelda ain’t Zelda without story. It’s a virtual requirement these days, it seems. You have to have a real world; you have to have side characters; you have to have plot; you have to have backstory. And by Din, you’ve got to mention goddesses… and thus the Hyrulian religion.

It’s a funny thing, the Hylian religion. It’s a story with which every hardcore Zelda fan is intimately familiar, yet it’s also a topic that rarely gets broached. The Terminian “religion” will get discussed here and there, but never do we see people discussing in depth the three goddesses and the legacy they left behind. I think the main cause of that stems from the fact that the Hyrulian religion is actually somewhat detailed. You could, if you really set your heart and mind on it, probably come up with some actual core set of beliefs, all of which somehow deriving themselves from some aspect of Hyrule, and inevitably start some cult somewhere based upon those foundations. Quite quickly and almost without warning, such a forum topic could easily jump ship into being about real-world religion, and no matter your background, mixing the two could very quickly result in a dangerous mixture.

Yet as I’ve played the series, there are distinct patterns that I’ve noticed in the games, patterns that have persisted from beginning to end, and these are trends that certainly are worthy of discussing. (After all, how many times have we heard the creation story now?) But before I begin, just to make sure we’re clear, I do want to institute the ground rule that whatever happens in the Zelda religion topic… stays in the Zelda religion topic. If you have the need to bring in real-world religion, please don’t comment or else you’ll be facing our good friend the Wallet Monster… or worse. With that said, let’s dive in.

As we all know, we’ve got our lovely goddesses three watching over the world at some level. You’ve got the lovely Din, dressed in scarlet, who formed the world. There’s Nayru in cerulean who partially tamed Din’s chaotic world with the notion of order. Lastly, but certainly not the least, you’ve got verdant Farore who created life in all forms, binding them to the laws of Nayru’s order while allowing them to create Din’s chaos. And the world was good and stuff. And they created the Triforce, which served not only was their symbol that they had created the world but also as a well of divine energy that they left behind that the beings of their great planet could draw upon. And that was really good.

And of course, the Triforce is the centre of everything. It not only serves as a plot device in games, it also gives a hidden indication as to the goddesses’ intent when the world was created. As we know from Ocarina, one of the hardest hit points in the Zelda series to date is the issue of the balance between the three Triforces. Ganondorf stormed in with an imbalanced heart, and lo and behold he didn’t get what he wanted. Yet we know that someone with a balanced heart would have all three pieces of the Triforce stuck within them… without having to go on some mad quest to find the other two.

And this brings us to our first point: the goddesses’ perception of the ideal man. Balance in all things. This is a motto that the ancient Athenians actually used back during their heyday. The goddesses liked a balanced heart, and it’s for good reason, too! Could you imagine what Ocarina would have been like if Ganon had the whole thing? (Hint: That’s A Link to the Past!) But honestly, let’s consider what an imbalanced person would do in this situation. A person with power and wisdom but no courage would be impotent; he would be looked upon as a leader, but he would fail to lead his people through the roughest of times despite the fact that he had a plan in place and the power to enact it. A person with power and courage but no wisdom would be a foolhardy soul; he would blindly lead his people into situations from which he could not retreat or escape, thus leading to his own demise and those that went with him. A person with courage and wisdom but no power would have the proper ambition but be ineffective in carrying it out; he would not be able to rally his people behind a cause nor convince others that his path was the correct path, and he would then quickly die trying because he was not strong enough to enact his aims. And if you consider the case where you only have one Triforce instead of two, you can easily imagine that it’d be ten times as bad.

So what would an individual that had all three properties be like? First, such a man would have the wisdom to find and determine what problems exist and what solutions would solve them. Second, the courage would enable him to be willing to ignore the risks to his own safety and tackle the problem head on. Finally, such a man would then have the power to enable him to negate the risk and the strength to endure the strain that accomplishing the task would likely cause. These are the three virtues that the goddesses told the Hylians and all people to follow, and they’re not bad principles to go by… provided you keep them in balance. Even though courage and wisdom end up on the side of good in every game (it’s so much easier to make a villain out of power, ne?), imbalance with those is just as much a vice as the third. It takes all three to truly be worthy of the Triforce.

And from the sound of that imaginary man with all three in balance, he seems like a really good guy. He’s wise, he’s courageous, and he’s got the skills to make it happen. Yet, at the same time, he doesn’t have to be a good guy. Turn this whole thing upside-down and look at it from another perspective; just imagine the perfect villain. Such a man would be wise, knowing the weaknesses of his enemies, thus giving him insight to know exactly how and when to strike. He would have courage, the daring and the audacity to take major risks to pursue his treacherous goals! And he would have power, the power at his command to throw at his objective until it was attained. He would be a dictator, but he would be wise enough not to pick unnecessary battles; he would allow some semblance of freedom, but only enough to make sure people did not riot against him. (Thankfully, Ganondorf is not this.)

Good and evil can come to this perfect state of balance, where ambition is tempered yet also encouraged by knowledge and steel. And this is why we are told about what would happen should both evil- and good-hearted individuals touch the divine Golden Power.

And speaking of that story, you know the story behind this as well. Evil begets evil, and good begets good. The Triforce is not a judge between right and wrong; this we know. When the Link to the Past manual refers to Farore as “‘The Juror of Courage,’” don’t mistake that for some indication that the goddesses necessarily favoured good over evil. If that had been the case, they’d simply have prevented evil from using it. (After all, if it works for the Master Sword, certainly it could be used here as well.) Yet this is clearly not the case. The goddesses actually have a different plan up their sleeve: they favour the eternal struggle of good and evil.

Both A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time mention this, that in times of darkness a hero would arise out of the blue and come in to save the day. We’ve seen this countless times before. (Okay, not countless. Only 13. More if you count the games that should not be named.) Ganondorf comes in and tries to get everyone to believe he’s all this and that, and before you can say Biggoron, he gets a Linkwhopin’. Is it dumb luck on Ganondorf’s part that he gets owned every time he makes a run for it? In all honesty, I don’t believe it’s so. How many times has Ganondorf not been killed yet merely sealed away either in the Sacred/Evil Realm or encased in stone or absorbed into the Four Sword or something equally as non-fatal? Nearly every time. Ganondorf just seems to keep coming back for more. He even says it himself; the Triforce of Power practically—if not actually—makes him immortal. Just one piece of the Triforce seems sufficient to make that happen.

But some are going to note that the goddesses actually intervened in Wind Waker. They actually did something to try and stop Ganondorf from conquering the world as they knew it. How could the goddesses—if they truly didn’t care about the cause of good—defy their normally Deist nature and actually do something that strictly favoured the Hylians?

Part of this reverts back to the sense of balance that the goddesses believed in. Ganondorf was hardly a balanced individual (Wind Waker’s emo Ganondorf is hardly what I’d call “balanced,” ha ha), and his conquering of the world with just one Triforce is definitively not something that champion’s the goddesses’ sacred rule. On the other hand, the other two parts of the Triforce–automatically more in balance because… well, there’s twice as many on that side–were veritable no-shows at the battle for whatever reason. With mad power threatening to rule over the land without courage and wisdom, honestly, what would the goddesses think? They’d call it a travesty and extremely sinful. Of course they’d get involved in a blink of an eye.

But at the same time, I don’t think that the goddesses are wholly uncaring toward the people of Hyrule either. I do not think that the goddesses necessarily want their chosen people to live in a world run by a tyrannical dictator. But imagine this: What would the world be like without evil? You might call it boring, but I think that “meaningless” would be a better word to use in this event. Good would prevail, and that is a good thing on all accounts, but ask yourselves the question: why would good prevail? In case you didn’t catch it, yes, this is a trick question. There would be no why; there would only be good. People wouldn’t choose to be good; they’d be, as Douglas Adams of Dilbert fame likes to say, “moist robots.”

By allowing evil to prosper upon occasion, good suddenly has meaning. When one chooses the side of good, one’s actions are not meaningless; they speak of choice, of morals, of character. By not intervening every single time something goes horrifically wrong, they force their own creation—the Hylians (and the other races)—to fend for themselves, to group together in difficult times and overtake the evil within their own world. And guess what? That requires the courage to take a stand, the wisdom to strike wisely, and power to not be knocked over by the constant barrage of enemies that the hero and his allies must face. Through this, the balance is self-correcting. Not only is there a balance between the three elements of the Triforce, but there is also a balance between good and evil. Never are the people allowed to get too soft under the niceties of good; never are the people forced into impending doom and decay under the wrath of evil.

Balance in all things. It’s as good a way to create a world as any, I guess.

Filed under Games, Editorials

Follow This Entry | Leave a Response | Trackback | Read Other Posts by The Missing Link

55 Messages from the Gossip Stones about “The Balance of the (Tri)Force”

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  • Trackback from 59921f2ddce019a964ec:

59921f2ddce019a964ec

59921f2ddce0

  • Trackback from buy hydrocodone:

buy hydrocodone

news

  • Trackback from hydrocodone:

hydrocodone

news

  • Trackback from meridia reviews:

meridia reviews

news

  • Trackback from download free ringtones:

download free ringtones

news

Comments

Hey, a crazy cult based on the Hylian religion sounds like a pretty good idea. Who’s with me? In all seriousness, great article. I love discussing the Hylian religion, and wish there were some more in-depth articles about Hyrulian religions in general. There are so many nuances that this article didn’t cover….

VenusQueenOfFaeries said:

Hey, a crazy cult based on the Hylian religion sounds like a pretty good idea. Who’s with me? In all seriousness, great article. I love discussing the Hylian religion, and wish there were some more in-depth articles about Hyrulian religions in general. There are so many nuances that this article didn’t cover….

There were several facets that I did want to cover in this article but literally ran out of time while writing. I wanted to cover numerology in there as well, but first it didn’t seem to fit, and then second, I literally ran out of time coming up with the article. Ah well.

Ah, no wonder it seemed a bit on the short side. Perhaps a series of follow-ups are in order? :D

Hey yeah, if Link is the chosen Hero that appears every few generations then why cant there be a chosen anti-hero *little anti-chirst pun there, lol*, if good and evil is a cycle that the Goddesses prefer then they could have taken advantage of Ganondorf and used him to those ends, so that could be another explanation for old Ganondorfs immortality, balance between good and evil.

I am all for the follow-ups! Awesome article. Although the goddesses do need to favour balance. Not only to allow the Hylians (and other races) to make choices and such, but because the evil is their own creation as well. And how would the other deities in Hyrule react if the Golden Three were constantly meddling?

I hate how much zelda is obsesed with religion.it makes some (or most) parts feel completely stupid.the same can be said for FF X, its still a good game mind you,its just that “yevon” and wakka can get on your nerves.I like oracle din though,shes cute fine :D .

that being said,I agree with your article and I must say that would be one interesting bad guy :P ! if……nintendo dosnt inflate his nose or poke out his eyes or *mumbles angrily while walking away* .

Perhaps Dark link would be that “perfect bad guy”? That would make for the most awsomeness storyline ever.
My vote is taken in the “follow up articles”.

“Four consoles and seven Sages ago, the Legend of Zelda series was simply what it’s title declared it to be, a legend about Zelda. It was about a very simple story about three magical triangles, a woman who was trying to defend them, a man who wanted to take them, and a hero who fought to get them back.”

i liked it alot better like that, magical triangles are alot more interesting and mysterious than goddesses and stuff.

shadowknight said:

Perhaps Dark link would be that “perfect bad guy”? That would make for the most awsomeness storyline ever.
My vote is taken in the “follow up articles”.

he needs a game based around himself :P .

Sesshorochikuramaru said:

“Four consoles and seven Sages ago, the Legend of Zelda series was simply what it’s title declared it to be, a legend about Zelda. It was about a very simple story about three magical triangles, a woman who was trying to defend them, a man who wanted to take them, and a hero who fought to get them back.”

i liked it alot better like that, magical triangles are alot more interesting and mysterious than goddesses and stuff.

yeah,for some reason-even though it added more facts-making the triforce be linked to the goddesses kinda took something away from the triforce.maybe because being magical triangles left room for your imagination to work.

Wow, this truly is an excellent article, TML! :)

And it’s coming just at the right time too, after the seeming oddities in Twilight Princess (though you didn’t cover this game, anyone who’s played it should know to use the insights from your article to give some sense to the events in TP).

So I’d honestly say this article is an invaluable piece of knowlegde that not every player necessarily could’ve figured out by themselves. I join the crowd of those asking for more on the deities of Hyrule when you have time!

I like the large role that Religion plays in The Legend of Zelda series. It seems to give it a more medieval vibe and allows a greater glimpse into the beliefs and values of particular characters. Plus, it also allows some rather extraordinary events to occur without becoming overly absurd. When thinking about the most balanced of individuals that fit the criteria of obtaining the whole Triforce, Link seems to come to mind.:P

That was a really thought-provoking article, I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

Jumbie said:
I join the crowd of those asking for more on the deities of Hyrule when you have time!

deities,huh? does oni link count :P ? that would make for a good article.

btw,is there any proof that the triforce was an intended invention :P ? if not then that could explain why evil people can use it even if the goddesses prefered good.

They should try to talk more about the religion in more games. I mean, they have goddesses, but the only temple other people visit that isn’t underwater or somthing is dedicated to time.

if they put too much religion in a game would get a bad reputation of being cultic or something similer (ive seen it with an anime to tell the truth).

The Hylian religeon is interesting. TML, here’s a brain teaser for you, what if the person was balanced not only in Power, Wisdom, and Courage, but is also balanced in the battle between good and evil. As in, he/she would wouldn’t be good, nor evil. Anything else I got to say are TP spoilers, so I can’t speak no more (for now.)

Jumanji Shishioh said:

The Hylian religeon is interesting. TML, here’s a brain teaser for you, what if the person was balanced not only in Power, Wisdom, and Courage, but is also balanced in the battle between good and evil. As in, he/she would wouldn’t be good, nor evil. Anything else I got to say are TP spoilers, so I can’t speak no more (for now.)

he would have to have some intention for touching the triforce .its not like you can just accidentally touch it,if the said person did then I would say they would only get the triforce of luck :P .no,you would have to have a reason to get to the triforce and touch it.after weighing whether that reason is more good or more evil you have your result :) .

Ninja Lord Kakashi said:

he would have to have some intention for touching the triforce .its not like you can just accidentally touch it,if the said person did then I would say they would only get the triforce of luck :P .no,you would have to have a reason to get to the triforce and touch it.after weighing whether that reason is more good or more evil you have your result :) .

what if he/she took it just to keep the rest of the world from obtaining it, and wished for immortality just so they can keep it from the rest of the world.

  • 19. Sage says:

Jumanji Shishioh said:

Ninja Lord Kakashi said:

he would have to have some intention for touching the triforce .its not like you can just accidentally touch it,if the said person did then I would say they would only get the triforce of luck :P .no,you would have to have a reason to get to the triforce and touch it.after weighing whether that reason is more good or more evil you have your result :) .

what if he/she took it just to keep the rest of the world from obtaining it, and wished for immortality just so they can keep it from the rest of the world.

Well, that would be selfish, meaning that they valued power more than anything else, meaning their heart was imbalanced, meaning they wouldn’t get a wish.
Hooray for ruining other peoples fun. :P

Did it ever say wheter it wasd the godesses that flooded wind Waker? I’m pretty sure the people just prayed to the gods (says so on beginning movie), so it could of easily been the not-as-powerful-but-still-pretty-powerful demi-gods or lesser gods.

Actually, TML, though I hate to say it, you are wrong. It was a great article but in AoL it says not that they must be balanced, but that thier heart must be pure. The Triforce split for the Prince not because he was imbalanced, but because he was impure. The same with Ganondorf. And though it is split up in these virtues it is not cause to split by them.

VenusQueenOfFaeries said:

Hey, a crazy cult based on the Hylian religion sounds like a pretty good idea. Who’s with me? blockquote>Me! To Linkville!

duhduhduhduh duhduhdahduhdah

Stupid not working blockquote!

Jumanji Shishioh said:
what if he/she took it just to keep the rest of the world from obtaining it, and wished for immortality just so they can keep it from the rest of the world.

that would just be mean lol there should be rules for the triforce :) its weird in LOZ, i think Link has wisdom & Zelda has courage…

Jumanji Shishioh said:

Ninja Lord Kakashi said:

he would have to have some intention for touching the triforce .its not like you can just accidentally touch it,if the said person did then I would say they would only get the triforce of luck :P .no,you would have to have a reason to get to the triforce and touch it.after weighing whether that reason is more good or more evil you have your result :) .

what if he/she took it just to keep the rest of the world from obtaining it, and wished for immortality just so they can keep it from the rest of the world.

but you must ask yourself why he wanted to keep it from the world.if he wanted to protect the world from the triforces power hes obviously good,and if he wanted to keep it from the world because he was greedy he would be a selfish jerk evil :P .

Bboy94 said:

Actually, TML, though I hate to say it, you are wrong. It was a great article but in AoL it says not that they must be balanced, but that thier heart must be pure. The Triforce split for the Prince not because he was imbalanced, but because he was impure. The same with Ganondorf. And though it is split up in these virtues it is not cause to split by them.

At the same time, evil is able to obtain all the parts of the Triforce as we saw in Link to the Past. Yet as it were, Nintendo truly didn’t get involved into the whole metaphysical aspect of Zelda until Ocarina of Time (when it became a major dominating theme throughout), and I’m taking my references from that and going from there.

VenusQueenOfFaeries said:

Hey, a crazy cult based on the Hylian religion sounds like a pretty good idea. Who’s with me? In all seriousness, great article….

A crazy Hylian Religion/Cult sounds kinda creepy, buuuuut, what the hell, I’m in!

Zen Blade said:

VenusQueenOfFaeries said:

Hey, a crazy cult based on the Hylian religion sounds like a pretty good idea. Who’s with me? In all seriousness, great article….

A crazy Hylian Religion/Cult sounds kinda creepy, buuuuut, what the hell, I’m in!

Count me in too, call me Sage Robert, lol.

Cults are considered evil by most people, but religions… they are protected by the government. I’m in as well.

Yes, me too.

:O!! I have a following!

Oh yes, I’m definitly in too! I love this stuff!

The Missing Link said:

At the same time, evil is able to obtain all the parts of the Triforce as we saw in Link to the Past. Yet as it were, Nintendo truly didn’t get involved into the whole metaphysical aspect of Zelda until Ocarina of Time (when it became a major dominating theme throughout), and I’m taking my references from that and going from there.

Hmm, how did Ganny get ALL of the pieces of the Triforce? Possibly the same way in The Wind Waker… then again… I need to think on this.

Hey why is this at the top, what happened to spoilers?!?!?

Jumanji Shishioh said:
Hmm, how did Ganny get ALL of the pieces of the Triforce? Possibly the same way in The Wind Waker… then again… I need to think on this.

I think its because he was sealed in the sacred realm.it gave him easy access to the triforce.maybe….

Bboy94 said:

Hey why is this at the top, what happened to spoilers?!?!?

maybe TML decided the bar on top was enough to remind people? your really better off just e-mailing him about it though.

Ninja Lord Kakashi said:

Bboy94 said:

Hey why is this at the top, what happened to spoilers?!?!?

maybe TML decided the bar on top was enough to remind people? your really better off just e-mailing him about it though.

That’s precisely the reason. Since it’s inside the great Zelda timer, I figured that I didn’t need to sticky the topic any more. Yes, the Spoiler Rule is still in effect. I just wanted to get the unsightly topic out of the way.

Who do you think is balanced enough to gain the whole Triforce the first time that they touch it?
I don’t think it can be Link because he would just get Courage, or Zelda who would get Wisdom, and obviously it’s not Ganondorf.

My suggestions are:
One of the Sages (Raura, Saria etc.)
The King of Hyrule
Impa

I can’t think of any more at the moment but there must be more.

Harkinian said:

Who do you think is balanced enough to gain the whole Triforce the first time that they touch it?
I don’t think it can be Link because he would just get Courage, or Zelda who would get Wisdom, and obviously it’s not Ganondorf.

My suggestions are:
One of the Sages (Raura, Saria etc.)
The King of Hyrule
Impa

I can’t think of any more at the moment but there must be more.

Link didnt get to touch the complete triforce until LttP, all the other times he just obtained a piece of it due to Ganondorf touching it firt, the other two pieces were then placed inside of Link and Zelda because they were able to keep them safe, so as Lttp proves Link CAN obtain the full Triforce.

lets see….I dont supose oracles would count :? ? other than that I would have to say the bombchu girl either vaati or the king would get it (vaati because he is pretty balanced and the king cause he did get them all before :D ).

Robert-UK said:

Harkinian said:

Who do you think is balanced enough to gain the whole Triforce the first time that they touch it?
I don’t think it can be Link because he would just get Courage, or Zelda who would get Wisdom, and obviously it’s not Ganondorf.

My suggestions are:
One of the Sages (Raura, Saria etc.)
The King of Hyrule
Impa

I can’t think of any more at the moment but there must be more.

Link didnt get to touch the complete triforce until LttP, all the other times he just obtained a piece of it due to Ganondorf touching it firt, the other two pieces were then placed inside of Link and Zelda because they were able to keep them safe, so as Lttp proves Link CAN obtain the full Triforce.

Which proves my point further, why wouldn’t LInk just get courage, because, he is not balanced, but good.

Bboy94 said:

Which proves my point further, why wouldn’t LInk just get courage, because, he is not balanced, but good.

so are you saying you think link is good but not balanced? if so I have to disagree…link obviously posseses courage,I mean,he gets the triforce of courage (almost) every game.he has power,if he didnt then he wouldnt be able to beat the one who has the triforce of power,tingleganondorf (courage can only get you so far,right ;) ? ).and finally,he wouldnt make it through the dungeons or the battles if he wasnt smart.

I cant access the OOT text page I have so I cant check any information on the matter.plus im still stuck in the shadow room in ganons castle……..playing the game with three hearts wasnt as fun as I had thought it would be :? .

Bboy94 said:

Actually, TML, though I hate to say it, you are wrong. It was a great article but in AoL it says not that they must be balanced, but that thier heart must be pure. The Triforce split for the Prince not because he was imbalanced, but because he was impure.

The Prince had nothing to do with the splitting of the Triforce in AoL. The King split the Triforce willingly and hid Courage before his death. At most, the Prince only had access to the Triforces of Wisdom and Power. It didn’t matter if the Prince was balanced or pure, because he was never able to test himself against the requirements of the combined Triforce.

I wish I had the AOL manual :( *sighs* .

Hey, I was reading this and I just had to get an account. Awhile ago, I got this crazy idea to write up a religio-magical system based on Western Ceremonial Magic, Shinto practices and beliefs, and the bits and peices of information on the Hylian religion from Zelda. So far I’ve got a really good system going. I’d tell you about it, but I don’t want you to steal my ideas until it’s done. ^_^ Sorry! But once it’s done I’ll probably make a website or something. If you don’t know anything about Ceremonial Magic or Shinto ideology then it probably wont make sense to you, because I’m not sure that you could flesh a religion or spirituality out of Zelda without adding some real-world ideas and practices. I even ordered the Master Sword off Ebay to use as a ceremonial sword in the rituals. lol, I’m a dork. If anyone would like to get with me and chat about this contact me on AIM @ LittleSatyrBoi. If I use any of your ideas I’ll be sure to give you due credit. Thanks!!! ^_^

……dont you think thats getting just a little carried away 0_o ?

Nope, not at all. I kinda follow the ideology of traditional paganism and Chaos magic, “If it works, why the hell not use it?”

Ninja Lord Kakashi said:

……dont you think thats getting just a little carried away 0_o ?

Nope, not at all. I kinda follow the ideology of traditional paganism and Chaos magic, “If it works, why the hell not use it?”

my… things are getting awkward here o_o’ see you all in the whos blog topic ;)

Kenja_no_Koukotsu said:

Nope, not at all. I kinda follow the ideology of traditional paganism and Chaos magic, “If it works, why the hell not use it?”

Ninja Lord Kakashi said:

……dont you think thats getting just a little carried away 0_o ?

*sigh* -_-’ …..well…whatever,just make sure you follow the rule TML wisely put up in the beggining of the article…

But before I begin, just to make sure we’re clear, I do want to institute the ground rule that whatever happens in the Zelda religion topic… stays in the Zelda religion topic. If you have the need to bring in real-world religion, please don’t comment or else you’ll be facing our good friend the Wallet Monster… or worse.

from where im standing….you’ve been eaten by the wallet monster two times over!

Ninja Lord Kakashi said:

Kenja_no_Koukotsu said:

Nope, not at all. I kinda follow the ideology of traditional paganism and Chaos magic, “If it works, why the hell not use it?”

Ninja Lord Kakashi said:

……dont you think thats getting just a little carried away 0_o ?

*sigh* -_-’ …..well…whatever,just make sure you follow the rule TML wisely put up in the beggining of the article…

But before I begin, just to make sure we’re clear, I do want to institute the ground rule that whatever happens in the Zelda religion topic… stays in the Zelda religion topic. If you have the need to bring in real-world religion, please don’t comment or else you’ll be facing our good friend the Wallet Monster… or worse.

from where im standing….you’ve been eaten by the wallet monster two times over!

Well, sorry, I’m new… and what the heck is a wallet monster? I’m not trying to create a debate or argument… I was just sharing my ideas.

Kenja_no_Koukotsu said:… and what the heck is a wallet monster?

hmm,good question really :) .just go to the article “That New Hyrulian Math” (just type it in the blogs search bar) …im pretty sure you’ll find your answer there :D .

Here’s a question: if the Three do not actively prefer good over evil, why did they place the Master Sword squarely in between evil persons and the Triforce? In OoT, Ganondorf can’t get to the Triforce until Link conveniently clears the Sword out of his way. The most obvious solution to this is that the Sword was a test to determine the cleverness (read: worthiness) of any evil person … but if that is the case, why not test the cleverness of a good person, too? The three races entrusted with the various Spiritual Stones are hardly perfect or even saintly, but they all seem to definitely prefer the association of good beings as opposed to evil. Witness how Ganondorf was unable to get his hands on any of the Stones via diplomacy. The same argument applies to the Hyrulean Royal Family. It seems to me as though (at least in OoT) it would be far, far easier for a good person to gain the Triforce than an evil one. This suggests that the Three at least lean towards/prefer good, although as you point out they also seem willing to tolerate the possession of part of the Triforce by an evil being. This could be for a host of reasons other than the one you argue for, though.

I’m going to offer a few members of that host up for examination. If you want to to stick to perfectly germane discussion, use your find feature to find “back to the original point.” That said, the musings that follow aren’t exactly off-topic, but not everyone would find them interesting.

One reason (not the one I would pick as most likely, but deserving mention) is sheer disinterest. It has been suggested above that the Triforce may have been an accidental creation. It seems pretty complex and powerful for an accident, but then these ARE deities we’re talking about. Perhaps their accidents, when they have any, are proportionally bigger than ours. Support for this could be the Wind Waker opening, where it says that the “gods” responded to the prayers of the people and flooded Hyrule. “Gods” could be used here to refer to the fact that the “goddesses” are no longer present and beings like Zephos and Cyclos have taken over. But the Triforce, always associated with the Three, is also referred to as the “power of the gods” throughout the game. So either the Three have departed/aren’t interested and the Triforce has somehow latched onto the “lesser gods,” or “gods” in this case includes the Three along with others (like Zephos).

Another possible reason is agency (free will, or the ability to choose). The word “agency” is never used in any Zelda game so far as I am aware, and in fact “destiny” is mentioned here and there. Yet Zelda of OoT, for one, seems to believe in free will; one of the most obvious implications of fate or the belief that we cannot choose is that personal responsibility does not exist. Zelda, though, seems to blame herself at least partly for the devastation caused by Ganon. This makes little sense if she believes in absolute destiny — why blame yourself for doing something you had literally no choice about? Actually, believing in fate is kind of pointless, although possibly comforting. If you believe in fate than it doesn’t matter whether you believe in fate or not, whatever philosophy you choose to adhere to is the one predetermined for you. You may as well believe in agency, since this is still fulfilling fate if fate exists. If fate doesn’t exist, then you’ve chosen rightly. (This idea is somewhat based off of Pascal’s Wager). Perhaps the Three don’t want to interfere with people’s agency, but this implies that the Three ARE paying attention to Hyrule. If they are paying attention … and they don’t want to interfere with people’s agency … than why did they leave the Triforce in Hyrule, regardless of whether it’s creation was deliberate or not? (I have a theory that would explain why the Triforce cannot be removed from Hyrule, but that’s off-topic) If you buy into agency completely, than you especially have to deal with the whole “Princess of Destiny” thing. Zelda may be very wise and feel some sense of personal responsibility for her actions, but the Great Deku Tree is also very wise (and a LOT older, although not necessarily more experienced) and he makes a direct reference Zelda as having some sort of Destiny with a capital D. Also, it occurs to me that Zelda refers to herself as having a destiny when speaking about the Sages. (Speaking of which, what exactly WAS that destiny? Part of it was the whole seventh-sage deal, but was that all of it?) Finally, agency makes prophecy (which Zelda is capable of) far more difficult. So perhaps in Hyrule there’s a balance between fate and agency. Perhaps “destiny” is something that you’re supposed to do, but you can choose whether or not to fulfill it? I think the term for that is fore-ordination…

Whoa, that’s a lot of parentheses.

If you want to be pessimistic, you could argue that the entirety of Hyrule, it’s peoples, and the Triforce are all part of a game designed to amuse the Three. Of course, if Hyrule is a game than we ought to ask Terry Pratchett’s question: what happens when a pawn reaches the end of the board? Is that what Ganon is? A pawn who reached one end of the board? (Looking back, this could actually be an optimistic viewpoint for a number of reasons, but I think that most who adopt this view would probably be pessimists.)

Similar, although not quite as depressing is the thought that the world of Hyrule could be an experiment. The logical follow-up to this is: what do the Three want to find out? Are they just curious, or do they expect some sort of concrete gain from this?

While I’m off in wacky-idea-land, try this one on for size. How about Ganon as a modified Prometheus-figure? He stole fire from the heavens (Triforce of Power from Sacred Realm) and has been tormented ever since. Of course, Ganon’s idea of how to give the fire to mankind seems a bit different from good old Promy’s … and what does that make Link? A vulture? Heracles?

Back to the original point.

Here’s another question: if the Three favor conflict between good and evil, why even create the Triforce? Good and evil are already locked in conflict, and neither side seems to ever be able to wipe out the other permanently (at least here on Earth). Who knows? Maybe the Three created other worlds and got tired of never seeing one side win, so they tried to create a weapon that would allow definitive (although still not complete) victory. Maybe Ganon will only be defeated when all the NPCs rise up and actually fight for themselves (for once).

The possibilities, given the relatively scant evidence and probability that some of the evidence at least is based on vague and unclear ideas on the part of the producers themselves, are endless. ESPECIALLY BECAUSE WE DON’T KNOW THE ALIGNMENT OF THE THREE THEMSELVES. At least, I’ve never seen any concrete evidence one way or the other.

Another item of confusion: practically everything we know is legend and myth that wasn’t witnessed by anyone but the Three themselves. The Sheikah are generally pretty accurate, but legends (although often based on truth) tend to get very distorted over time. Especially the details that are critical to figuring out which of the many possibilities is right.

Here’s my personal take: if you’re a deity powerful enough and smart enough to create a third part of an entire living, breathing world from scratch, you’re probably pretty smart. Now, if the Three are beings at all like humans, they have a number of sources of potential fulfillment and satisfaction in their existences. One of these is creation. Another is personal progress. A third biggie is interaction with others, especially when that interaction is somehow novel. Variety is the spice of life. But it looks as if the only social interaction the Three have is each other, an unknown number of deities who appear to be much less powerful and intelligent, and observing the people of Hyrule, who are probably pretty predictable overall. Unless there’s some club of uber-gods out there somewhere, that seems pretty boring. Even if there is such an organization, most similar earthly groups welcome new recruits. What it all boils down to is the Three’s own preferences. If they are jealous of their power … well, why would they work together than? On the other hand, if they don’t mind generosity, what better place (in fact, what other place IS there) to recruit new friends from than the world you created a few eons back? That’s my theory: that at least one of the trio of Zelda, Link, and Ganon were supposed to become like the Three through some combination of events. The Triforce, then, makes perfect sense as a tool for exercising creativity, learning, building, etc. I could go on for a while, but I’ll call it quits there.

Of course, all of this is shaped by my own religious beliefs.

Looking back, this turned out much longer than intended (as usual). So I’ll finish up quickly.

Final response to the article: you have interesting ideas, and they are quite possibly right. The idea of deities who prefer a cyclical arrangement of good and evil seems to be fairly popular in fantasy circles last I checked. There are other interpretations for the evidence, though.

Aren’t there always? :?

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.