ZeldaBlog

Zelda, the Lost Races

June 12th, 2006 at 11:58 am by Archaic Sage

Hello! It’s been a long while since I last wrote anything for ZeldaBlog, and although, technically, this isn’t new, I don’t doubt that a lot of you wouldn’t have already read this. Furthermore, I’ve also done more research into this topic of races, and there are more undiscovered things! So, let’s just call this the start!

Many have died. Yes, that’s what we could consider happened to the many races that have existed throughout the many years of The Legend of Zelda, or in other words, Hyrule. After all, there has been many eons of years from the first Zelda game, which I’m going to say is Ocarina of Time right the way through to the last, The Adventure of Link. We know that there are at least a few hundred years from Ocarina of Time until The Wind Waker. So who can say how many years is after that! In this time, many of the races of Zelda have slowly disappeared.

So, the first race that could be noted to disappear is the Zora. From Ocarina of Time to The Wind Waker, the Zoras seemingly die out. They do not exist from there onward. Well, that’s how it seems at least. We must consider the fact that the Zora do exist in the Oracle games, however sporadically. Now, the Oracle games do not take place in Hyrule, they take place just outside of Hyrule, as we all know. However, if they exist outside of Hyrule, does that mean that they’ve died out? No.

However, we must also consider the fact that the Oracles take place outside of Hyrule, and by a lot of people’s timelines, after Link’s Awakening, but before The Legend of Zelda. We do not expect to encounter the Zora in Link’s Awakening, as it takes place on Kohilint Island, which doesn’t contain any of the races aside from Humans and Hylians. As such, they are disregarded within this area of the world. This no-Zora sentiment is also echoed in The Minish Cap; however, there is no reference to this creature at all, not even in their other forums. However, when we move into A Link to the Past, we could be expected to come across the Zoras once again. This is not the case.

The Zoras have actually become evil, as we now know. Officially, the Zoras had become the Zolas; however, to comply with Timeline standards, all information published before Ocarina of Time is void, if a re-release of the game, produced by Nintendo, is released with new information. The Zolas are now the Zora in the A Link to the Past version on the Gameboy Advance; the text-dumps across the Internet have this information. Anyway, it appears that the Zoras have become evil, as they are now attacking the humans on the ground, this also occurs in The Legend of Zelda as well.

There is a possible reasoning behind this as well, the fact that the Zoras are simply protecting their own. Our first discovery of the Zora is in Ocarina of Time. The race are very reclusive, you are only able to even enter the Zora’s Domain if you have a connection to the Royal Family of Hyrule, “Their door will not open for anyone except those who have some connection with the Royal Family.” this shows us how reclusive these people really are. If we are to follow the single-timeline theory (which we are), the Zoras would have no memory of being under Ice, however, we would know that they would want a firm connection to the Royal Family to be spoken to by Hylains.

R.I.P. KokiriBy the time of A Link to the Past, there are now warnings to avoid them, as they attack if you do get to close to them. There is no cannon evidence to say why they have become evil, but the fact that they may simply be angered at Hylians for flooding the world from their prayers is a safe bet to make. Furthermore, we also can assume that the Royal Family’s song has been lost, as there are no further references to the song after Ocarina of Time. As such, the race may simply just be protecting their own from an outside race that has caused much pain.

Or they’ve simply just become incredibly evil.

Now, let’s look further on at the races, the Gorons. The Gorons are a rock-loving race, and yet, unlike the Zoras, they manage to exist on the Great Sea as merchants. This is a shock to many, as it would be more safely assumed that the Zoras would live in these conditions far better than the Gorons. Although the Gorons are still not listed on Zelda.com’s Encyclopaedia, we do know that they are there. Simply, because of the look of the creatures who are the merchants.

However, this in itself is a mystery, as they should, in theory, be able to cope living on the mountains. As the people of Hyrule all had to flee to the mountains when the Goddesses answered the pleas of the townsfolk and flooded the world, the Gorons already had an established population and culture set up. Yet, they do not appear to have any stronghold within The Wind Waker at all.

For this, there are two reasons that I can fathom. There is the chance that the Gorons simply did not want to be forced out of their own hometowns by the influx of people, and left out of their own free will, or what I feel is slightly more likely, that when Ganondorf broke the seal and came to attack Hyrule for the second time, he revived Volvagia and had them eat the majority of their race. This would explain the clear lack of Gorons in the subsequent games.

However, the Gorons do exist within the Oracles and Majora’s Mask. Again, the possibility that some Gorons left Hyrule and set up colonies outside of this area is a possibility. It is also the only explanation that could possibly make any sense. They further exist, barely, in The Minish Cap. We know this from the fact that there is a Giant Goron, and he does talk to you, if you know how to make him. This shows us that the Gorons do continue to exist in Hyrule after Ocarina of Time. Now, depending on timeline placement, The Minish Cap takes place either before Ocarina of Time (with Four Swords Adventures), or after it (again, with Four Swords Adventures). Either way, the Gorons do exist within these games, however marginly.

Within The Minish Cap, the very secondary role that they play is understandable, as the premise of the game is about the Minish, or Picori. So every other race does in fact play a very marginalised role. Yet, there is no other reference to them at all, from all of the Hylian people, that there are Gorons on the mountain, aside from the obvious Giant Goron.

Although, within A Link to the Past, The Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link, there is no Gorons at all. No mention of them either. What does this mean? Have they died out? This I can’t understand, as within all of these games, there are lots of mountains, and many of the enemies from Ocarina of Time, such as the Leevers, still exist. A Link to the Past would be a very good opportunity for the Gorons to exist; however, they simply do not.

Reasoning behind them not existing? It’s an impossible question to answer, at this moment in time. They may have simply just died out, or fled outside of Hyrule’s borders, and need someone to open the borders up for them. We simply do not know.

The Kokiri. The Kokiri are the race that looked after the Hero of Time through the early years of his life. As such, you would expect to see more of a mention of these brilliant creatures. One could argue that it is their own fault that they become part of the lost races of Zelda. After all, they do make sure that they keep themselves hidden from the rest of the world.

Yet, this does not make any real sense, as Link is known for cladding himself in Green, which is the trait of the Kokiri. Malon seems to know this from Ocarina of Time, as she seems to know that Link is not from Hyrule Town, he is from the “Forest”. The fate of the Kokiri should really be left in Hylian Legend, as they are one of the most crucial parts of Link’s many quests. His leaving Hyrule has been argued to be to go and search for his “friend”, which is believed, by the majority, to be Navi. So their legend should really have existed further on than The Wind Waker, which only mentions them as a passing reference.

R.I.P. KokiriAlthough this does seem odd, it’s also perfectly logical. The Kokiri themselves are reclusive creatures, who are easily forgotten in time. After all, the predominant races, such as the Gorons and even the Zoras seem to have no real mention after The Wind Waker, well, non-enemy Zoras. As such, it seems that the flood seemed to have completely removed them from the history of the world.

The logical follow through for this race would be the Koroks, which get even less mention overall in Hyrule history, as they are simply the next stage of evolution of the Kokiri. The Koroks are apparently scared of all other races unless they’ve been given permission to see them by the Deku Tree. This is seen from their reaction to seeing Link in their domain in the Forest Haven. This would explain their complete lack of history further on in the timelinial history of the game.

The Rito are the next race that needs to be discussed. The bird people. This race seems to be one in their own throughout Hylian history. This is mostly because there is no other reference to a Bird People in anything, at least that I can think of, in any of the other Zelda games, at all. We all know of the Kokiri to Korok evolution, and it makes sense to us. However, the Rito just seem to exist from out of nowhere. The closest thing I can think of is the Mail Man from Animal Crossing.

The Rito themselves have been argued to have evolved from Zoras, as the name Ruto is that of the Zora Princess from Ocarina of Time. However, this theory seems to be less credible every passing day, as we know that Twilight Princess follows Ocarina of Time, and there is no reference, yet, to the Rito existing.

The final set race that’s been missing is the Gerudos. The Gerudo people are a race of thieves, so it would make sense for them to survive, as they’re just a race of brilliantly beautiful women, who give birth to only one man every one hundred years, according to Ocarina of Time. These Master (Mistress?) Thieves survived on their cunning alone. They live in the Deserts of West Hyrule, at least in Ocarina of Time.

Their presence in The Wind Waker is a passing reference in reality. Tetra states that they have fought off some “pirates”, who could easily be interpreted to be the Gerudo thieves, as they became pirates in Termina, Majora’s Mask (a subject that’s out of the scope of this article). These pirates used to own the Forbidden Fortress, which would again, make complete sense owing to their stringent security at Gerudo Fortress, as their homebase. This is the final reference to the Gerudo’s in the game, aside from Ganondorf/Ganon talking about his “homeland” being the desert. Again, his final words are far too philosophical for this article again.

However, what has ever happened to this race of thieves. There is no real reference to them again, timelinewise, in any other game. In fact, there is no reference to them in any Hyrule based Zelda game after The Wind Waker to date. This is a shame, as they have the characteristics to really create a harsh, and powerful race, enemy or ally.

So, what’s happened to these races throughout time? Well, it does seem, that all of them, with the exception of the Zora’s have died out or simply moved out of Hyrule or had no focus left on them. We now have some more concrete evidence that the Goron’s exist within Twilight Princess, with the official art of them, but that’s it. Nothing else.

Let’s hope some of them make it through!

For those of you recognise this, it appeared on Harkinian this month. But I feel that it’s long enough to be here as well!

Edit: Make sure that you read the comments as well people. There are amendments and alike within the comments.

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53 Messages from the Gossip Stones about “Zelda, the Lost Races”

    Comments

    i dont know why but when ever there is a goron mission it is so borring for me, im not a goron fan…

    On the subject of the Zora -> Rito theory, I noticed you left out a rather large piece of evidence–according to Laruto (a Zora), the one that carries on her bloodline is Medli (a Rito). And as a rebuttal for your denial that Rito don’t seem to be in Twilight Princess, take into consideration that the fact most theories regarding Zora -> Rito evolution state that the cause of the evolution was Hyrule’s flooding. Twilight Princess takes place pre-flood. Thus, Ritos have yet to exist.

    Psy said:

    On the subject of the Zora -> Rito theory, I noticed you left out a rather large piece of evidence–according to Laruto (a Zora), the one that carries on her bloodline is Medli (a Rito). And as a rebuttal for your denial that Rito don’t seem to be in Twilight Princess, take into consideration that the fact most theories regarding Zora -> Rito evolution state that the cause of the evolution was Hyrule’s flooding. Twilight Princess takes place pre-flood. Thus, Ritos have yet to exist.

    While it is made rather clear that the Rito are some form of evolved Zora, i still want to now why the *Navi* something would change from a fish to a bird when the world is covered in water. Wouldn’t they thrive? I mean why go from freedom, to being confined to mountain tops>

    I refuse to believe that any of these races have died out, my beliefe is that the Zora’s are a magical race and that by using that magic they were able to transform themselves into the Rito people.

    Like I said, the essence of the Zora remains, as what was once known as the Zola, but the “good” Zora seem to have died out.

    Also, I did miss out a huge chunk of evidence with the Zoras, the Laruto is a Zora, and the bloodline moves onto the Rito, but it doesn’t really make a huge amount of sense for the Zoras to become Rito, aside from magical intervention. Which was what I was really trying to stay away from. It’s the typical answer to everything.

    Further, we don’t know why the Rito became the way they are, we’re not even sure if they’re really the next stage in Zora evolution, after all, there are many races that just drop dead.

    It is possible that the 3 goddesses transformed the Zoras into the Rito and the Kokiri into the Koroks. After all, they did create them, so why wouldn’t they want them to survive?

    So what about the Gorons then? Obviously, they were quite fine on the mountain tops so they didn’t need to transform into a “flying race”(the Koroks can fly with the aid of their deku leaves). This being the reason why they are the only ones seen in Twilight Princess.

    I could be wrong, but this does have a valid point.

    first of all,as for the zora-rito thing,zoras eat fish (this is not a guess,I found it from MM) and in TWW there are no fish in the great sea, so thay could have changed so they didint starve.the gorons could have left there mountain after the flood because thay cant swim,and most of there mountain is a downwards tunel.plus only a couple gorons apear in following games,so maybe they are the few survivors.and in the flood,maybe only hylians were selected to live on the mountain tops (islands,whatever :P ).its hard to tell what races are still alive in the series though because the time-line you use could be different from someone elses time-line (or the “real time-line” if such a thing exists :D ).good article though.

    Fish-type –> bird-type seems to have occurred in the real world (with a reptile stage in the interim).

    You make a lot of bold assumptions, AS. ;) On one hand, I am tempted to promote Timeline Fairness and consider your theory because such a theory is inevitably not incorrect; at the same time, the Timeline Nihilism within me wants me to rip the article to shreds because the article is not necessarily correct. ;) Of course, as if to complicate everything, the Timeline Apathy just makes me want to eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and call it a night. As such, I feel compelled to make a few key points and then call it a day:

    1. Divine Intervention — As Nayru said above, we know from Waker that the goddesses intervened in the world some time before Waker took place. However, we do not know precisely the effects of this intervention. Essentially, the only clear change that Joe Hylian could have observed is the flood, but the Kokiri and Zoras tended to be rather unobservable from the Hylian perspective. They could have easily been changed… and the Deku Tree even suggests it with regard to the Koroks.

    2. Omission as Insignificance — It is possible that the omission of the races from the narratives of these games (especially with regards to the earlier games) means only that the races were insignificant in the story rather than that they did not exist. For example, dragons clearly existed in The Hobbit, but we see no dragons in The Lord of the Rings; does this mean that dragons had died in the X years since Bilbo’s adventure with the Dwarves?

    3. Species Intermingling — Weird as it might sound, in the modern version of Past, the descendants of the Wise Men were renamed as the descendants of the Sages, in an obvious attempt to retcon the story to reference Ocarina. The Sages in Ocarina were of all sorts of races, but in Past, they were all humanoid. The obvious explanation, if one assumes continuity of bloodline, is that the species were able to intermarry and produce viable offspring, thus continuing the bloodline despite the existence of the races proper.

    Ok… where to start…

    First, the Zoras. You are wrong to assume there is a distinction between the Zola and Zora. Zola was simply a mistranslation in the original Zelda that has been fixed in later games. From what I understand, in Japanese, “l” and “r” are interchangeable for a certain Japanese character. Hence the translation of Zelda into Japanese being “Zeruda.” It’s a mistake just like GANNON. We don’t assume there are two different Evil Kings just because they’re spelled differently in different games. You seem to imply in the SNES version of A Link to the Past they are referred to as Zola. This couldn’t be more false (check the SNES text dump here: http://www.zeldalegends.net/index.php?p=122 ). Zola is only mentioned in The Legend of Zelda, and was a mistranslation as I stated earlier. If we had to, we could go back to the Japanese texts and verify that there is only one spelling. In the Oracles, there is even an explanation and name given for the distinctions in the species. The Ocean Zora are the good Zora, and the River Zora are bad.

    Now there are more than plenty of holes in the above. For instance, you would assume the Ocean Zora to survive in a flooded Hyrule. Also, the Zora’s in Ocarina of Time live in a river of sorts and there is no ocean in OoT, but they are certainly not the River Zora from Oracles! The only thing I can think of is that Ocean and River are simply naming conventions used in Labrynna, and they are different in other regions of the world. Never the less, a real reason for the division of Zoras is given, and it’s not a Zola.

    Isn’t there a quote in TWW somewhere that specifically mentions the Great Sea being devoid of fish? Yeah, the Information Fish (or whatever their names were) are still there, but I always took it to mean the Zoras specifically did not exist in the same sense as they did in OoT in TWW. Now, as to what happened to the Zora I will discuss with the Rito.

    Ok, starting from here I’m going to introduce the Zelda Law of Minimalism for my reasoning. The law of minimalism states that the lack of evidence is not sufficient enough to assume the evidence does not exist. Basically, just because a race such as the Goron are not present in a game, say A Link to the Past, is no reason to assume that the Gorons are extinct without canonical text to back it up. Anything else is fanficcing. Most people automatically used this law to explain where the Picori were in later games. Of course, Nintendo was pretty sly and retroactively wrote them into the story by claiming they were responsible for hiding objects in pots and such (sort of like having the Zelda II towns named after the OoT sages). I see no reason why this logic shouldn’t extend to other aspects of the series. The Zora are usually not bound by this law because there is alot of text to infer indirectly what happened to them. However, such text for say the Kokiri or the Gorons is very hard to produce for games that were released before they were even introduced to the series. So the best we can assume is that the Gorons are still in Hyrule during A Link to the Past, and that Link simply never encountered them during the game. We know the Gorons survived the flood because they are present in the Oracles, and I don’t think anyone places the Oracles before TWW.

    I agree with you largely about the Kokiri. We can only assume that in later games they still exist somewhere and that a future game will pick things up.

    One big thing I see people continually forget about the Rito is that Valoo is responsible for their wings. In fact, it even mentions a time before when they did not have wings! That is why they used the grappling hook (which bears atleast a small resemblance to the Hookshot/Longhot, the Longshot being found in the Water Temple, ok, that might be stretching it a little). This kicks out a large part of the Zora -> Rito evolution. I wonder if anyone has dug up any anatomical similarities between the species absent the wings. Also, the fact that Medli is stated to be directly descended from Laruto as said above. I’d like to point out it is a bad idea to base any Zelda theory off of Twilight Princess until it is released or we somehow otherwise learn the story. There is simply no way of knowing at this point.

    The Gerudo are definitely an interesting aspect. First of all, are they Hylian? I can’t remember if they had pointed ears or not in Ocarina of Time. If they aren’t, then they weren’t mentioned being saved by the godesses when Hyrule was flooded. I also thought of the Gerudo Pirates when Tetra mentioned a “rival gang of pirates.” Also, Ganondorf’s speech at the end of TWW might give some clues to what happened to them. I’ll have to pull that up again sometime and check. Besides that, I can’t think of any other mention in the series besides Hyrule Adventures. I never played through Hyrule Adventures, and I know there is alot of debate as to where it’s placed. This could also shed some light on the Gerudos.So either they aren’t Hylian and drowned when Hyrule was flooded, or they are Hylian (which I’m leaning towards) and are simply existing somewhere and haven’t been mentioned in any recent games. Perhaps they assimilated. Who knows?

    To contrast with your conclusion that most of the races are extinct, I’m going to argue that all of the races not mentioned to have disapeared in canon text still exist and can be brought back in future games.

    While Medli carries the bloodline of the Zora LaRuto, it does not necessarily mean that the Zoras evolved into the Rito. What about mixed breeding; is it possible that a Zora mated with a Rito? Yeah, that’s really awkward, and anyone who knows biology, PLEASE prove me wrong. I really just can’t see the Zora forming into the Rito.

    I assume that some of the Zora migrated away from Hyrule, like, I think, most the Gorons did also, which explains their disappearance. Their appearance in other places, as proved in the Oracle games and MM, gives me that impression.

    As for the Kokiri…well, if you go back to OoT’s geography, the area of the Great Deku Tree was for the most part the one spot that did not get flooded, but the Kokiri’s little village was. So to escape the crashing waters, and to better fit the new life on the ocean, the Great Deku Tree (OoT’s Deku Tree Sprout) turned them into a different race.

    The Gerudos? I believe they were the thieves inahbiting the Forsaken Fortress before Ganondorf in TWW, and eventually they were just wiped out by a band of other island inhabitors who feared their power, or for some other reason.

    Just my guesses though.

    Ah yes, TML put a few things very succintly what I took three pages to write. :)

    I also think alittle bit of slack should be given to the developers and we should just admit that they couldn’t possibly have anticipated the expansive storylines that would develop later. Of course, it’s their fault for writing so many damn prequels anyways. ;)

    As one possibility was mentioned before, there is the possibility that as time went on, some of the races needed…how should I put this in a VERY clean way…Dates, anyways, because of the Zora (as seen in OoT) they needed dates, and some went out with the Hylians. Now there is also the theory that the Gerudo had dated with the Hylians as well. This is fantasy stuff, so anything goes. Anyways, with the Human-Zora hybrids in exsistence, they look like Hylians, but still are considered Zora, and when the flood happened, they went for the mountain, and found a magical dragon that granted wings (Red Dragon gives you wings) and named him Valoo, and thus is the Rito born. This can be combatted with the multiple timeline theory, or if the manga was canon, but we are speaking of the single timeline theory, so I’m going to be quiet about it.

    my other theory is that all the races fell into terminia :D .jk.

    Yay, this is exactly what I wanted. Intelligent debate :) .

    Right, first I’m going to deal with TML:

    1. Divine Intervention — As Nayru said above, we know from Waker that the goddesses intervened in the world some time before Waker took place. However, we do not know precisely the effects of this intervention. Essentially, the only clear change that Joe Hylian could have observed is the flood, but the Kokiri and Zoras tended to be rather unobservable from the Hylian perspective. They could have easily been changed… and the Deku Tree even suggests it with regard to the Koroks.

    I believe that the Koroks themselves said that they changed. This is more than likely to be owing to the Deku Tree’s magic, rather than the Goddesses, as they tend to avoid direct contact with the people of Hyrule, for whatever reason. This is clear from the fact that instead of removing Ganondorf, they simply let the rain fall.

    2. Omission as Insignificance — It is possible that the omission of the races from the narratives of these games (especially with regards to the earlier games) means only that the races were insignificant in the story rather than that they did not exist. For example, dragons clearly existed in The Hobbit, but we see no dragons in The Lord of the Rings; does this mean that dragons had died in the X years since Bilbo’s adventure with the Dwarves?

    In regards to Lord of the Rings, we do actually know that the majority of the Dragons were dying out, as it states that in the Hobbit, as the dragon in The Hobbit, whose name is passing me by with a big fast car, is one of the “last great dragons”. Then there is the firework dragon as well. Further, there’s not been a Dragon in the Shire in over a hundred years :-P . // lotr.

    The omission of these races is rather important, especially considering the size of the Gorons, which are the main race to be seen and heard about. If they live in the mountains in OoT, it can clearly be assumed that they’ll live there in LoZ, in which they don’t. The only evidence to support their life is a dodgy bit of work from the Valiant comics, that state within AoL, they’re in Southern Hyrule, and it’s a possibility that the Goron’s live somewhere else.

    3. Species Intermingling — Weird as it might sound, in the modern version of Past, the descendants of the Wise Men were renamed as the descendants of the Sages, in an obvious attempt to retcon the story to reference Ocarina. The Sages in Ocarina were of all sorts of races, but in Past, they were all humanoid. The obvious explanation, if one assumes continuity of bloodline, is that the species were able to intermarry and produce viable offspring, thus continuing the bloodline despite the existence of the races proper.

    That’s a possibility, but wouldn’t there be some form of disfigurements in the races. After all, Gorons X Hylians, then GoronHylian X Zora. That’d create some odd children. It could be a possibility that the Hylian race is simply the dominant one, and that people would remember that over any other race.

    Now onto Vaa:

    First, the Zoras. You are wrong to assume there is a distinction between the Zola and Zora. Zola was simply a mistranslation in the original Zelda that has been fixed in later games. From what I understand, in Japanese, “l” and “r” are interchangeable for a certain Japanese character. Hence the translation of Zelda into Japanese being “Zeruda.” It’s a mistake just like GANNON. We don’t assume there are two different Evil Kings just because they’re spelled differently in different games. You seem to imply in the SNES version of A Link to the Past they are referred to as Zola. This couldn’t be more false (check the SNES text dump here: http://www.zeldalegends.net/index.php?p=122 ). Zola is only mentioned in The Legend of Zelda, and was a mistranslation as I stated earlier. If we had to, we could go back to the Japanese texts and verify that there is only one spelling. In the Oracles, there is even an explanation and name given for the distinctions in the species. The Ocean Zora are the good Zora, and the River Zora are bad.

    First of all, as I actually stated in the article,

    Officially, the Zoras had become the Zolas; however, to comply with Timeline standards, all information published before Ocarina of Time is void, if a re-release of the game, produced by Nintendo, is released with new information.

    Although, I will admit, I’ve missed out a crucial paragraph explaining what I meant by the Zola’s in ALttP. I consider the Zolas to be the evil Zoras. I tend to think of them in that context, which is why the Zoras in ALttP became the Zolas.

    Now there are more than plenty of holes in the above. For instance, you would assume the Ocean Zora to survive in a flooded Hyrule. Also, the Zora’s in Ocarina of Time live in a river of sorts and there is no ocean in OoT, but they are certainly not the River Zora from Oracles! The only thing I can think of is that Ocean and River are simply naming conventions used in Labrynna, and they are different in other regions of the world. Never the less, a real reason for the division of Zoras is given, and it’s not a Zola.

    Isn’t there a quote in TWW somewhere that specifically mentions the Great Sea being devoid of fish? Yeah, the Information Fish (or whatever their names were) are still there, but I always took it to mean the Zoras specifically did not exist in the same sense as they did in OoT in TWW. Now, as to what happened to the Zora I will discuss with the Rito.

    There are no fish in The Wind Waker sea, you are correct. So the “fish” Zora would have trouble surviving, but there is little other explanation for it. Unless they turned on one another, but that’s just moving into fanfiction. The Zora may have also been sealed in the seal in Old Hyrule, which is a possibility as there is already a precedent for them being in a “seal”, consider OoT and Frozen Zora’s Domain.

    Ok, starting from here I’m going to introduce the Zelda Law of Minimalism for my reasoning. The law of minimalism states that the lack of evidence is not sufficient enough to assume the evidence does not exist. Basically, just because a race such as the Goron are not present in a game, say A Link to the Past, is no reason to assume that the Gorons are extinct without canonical text to back it up. Anything else is fanficcing. Most people automatically used this law to explain where the Picori were in later games. Of course, Nintendo was pretty sly and retroactively wrote them into the story by claiming they were responsible for hiding objects in pots and such (sort of like having the Zelda II towns named after the OoT sages). I see no reason why this logic shouldn’t extend to other aspects of the series. The Zora are usually not bound by this law because there is alot of text to infer indirectly what happened to them. However, such text for say the Kokiri or the Gorons is very hard to produce for games that were released before they were even introduced to the series. So the best we can assume is that the Gorons are still in Hyrule during A Link to the Past, and that Link simply never encountered them during the game. We know the Gorons survived the flood because they are present in the Oracles, and I don’t think anyone places the Oracles before TWW.

    Lack of evidence, in any form, is cannon. It’s a common technique in poetry. If you miss something out, then you’re putting emphasis on it. You just need to see it. Saying lack of evidence is not enough to assume that they are not there cannot be a valid theory. Simply because that’s not the way that anything works. Such as with the historian, Elton, he believes that there was no real organised Puritan Choir in the Elizabethan parliament; however, there is little evidence to suggest this. In fact, there is evidence to say that there was a more organised Catholic branch; yet, the new common belief is that there was no Puritan Choir. The lack of evidence has moved the belief onto that they simply do not exist. This is the rule that I’ve invoked.

    One big thing I see people continually forget about the Rito is that Valoo is responsible for their wings. In fact, it even mentions a time before when they did not have wings! That is why they used the grappling hook (which bears at least a small resemblance to the Hookshot/Longhot, the Longshot being found in the Water Temple, ok, that might be stretching it a little). This kicks out a large part of the Zora -> Rito evolution. I wonder if anyone has dug up any anatomical similarities between the species absent the wings. Also, the fact that Medli is stated to be directly descended from Laruto as said above. I’d like to point out it is a bad idea to base any Zelda theory off of Twilight Princess until it is released or we somehow otherwise learn the story. There is simply no way of knowing at this point.

    I thought they used the grappling hook when they were small and didn’t have wings.

    The only real similarities between the two races is when we consider the wings of the Zora in the official art, these could’ve evolved into wings, as, if I recall correctly, their arms become wings when they fly.

    The Gerudo are definitely an interesting aspect. First of all, are they Hylian? I can’t remember if they had pointed ears or not in Ocarina of Time. If they aren’t, then they weren’t mentioned being saved by the godesses when Hyrule was flooded. I also thought of the Gerudo Pirates when Tetra mentioned a “rival gang of pirates.” Also, Ganondorf’s speech at the end of TWW might give some clues to what happened to them. I’ll have to pull that up again sometime and check. Besides that, I can’t think of any other mention in the series besides Hyrule Adventures. I never played through Hyrule Adventures, and I know there is alot of debate as to where it’s placed. This could also shed some light on the Gerudos.So either they aren’t Hylian and drowned when Hyrule was flooded, or they are Hylian (which I’m leaning towards) and are simply existing somewhere and haven’t been mentioned in any recent games. Perhaps they assimilated. Who knows?

    They do not have pointy ears in the Official art. However, this does not mean that they no longer exist, I’ve always assumed that the passing reference to a band of pirates was in line with the Gerudos. Especially considering in the parallel world of Termina, they are pirates.

    To contrast with your conclusion that most of the races are extinct, I’m going to argue that all of the races not mentioned to have disappeared in canon text still exist and can be brought back in future games.

    If you notice, my conclusion is very open ended indeed. As such, I do believe that they’re not all dead. It just seems the logical conclusion to make with the evidence presented to us at this moment in time. However, I feel that the focus has just shifted from them.

    Mwa ha ha, now it is my turn to put forth my crazy theories! First of all, I think it is entirely likely that the Gerudo, after the defeat of their leader Ganondorf, lost a lot of influence and power in the Zelda Universe, eventually leading to a decision to intermarry with the Hylians (possibly while hiding their true identities) and live with them permanently. As time passed, their new lifestyle adapted and the inner magic of their blood waned, allowing them to birth male children, until the last of the Geruda were completely assimilated into the Hylian race.
    I also believe it is entirely possible that the Zora involved into the Rito, as the sage bloodline reference is to large to ignore. I think the more modern evil Zora of the later Zelda games were more of a corrupt genetic offshot (anyone keeping up with Warcraft Lore can think about the Drainie going from the Eredor like race to the Lost ones).
    Gorons, I say alive in all zelda games up until the later ones, then they may be, I don’t know. I still hold onto the now controversial view that LTTP predates Wind Waker for a variety of reasons, meaning that I believe the Gorons are in LTTP, just not mentioned.
    The Kokiri, of course, evolved into the Koroks (although this does raise the question if these are the same guys from OoT, as it is implied that the Kokiri are immortal) and as not even Link knew about the Korok until meeting them, they still roam the Earth, spreading their seeds and planting their forests, all the while avoiding the clumsy big people.
    As for Deku scrubs… dead, screwed over, off the planet, gone, how ever you want to put it.
    Anything else… nope, can’t think of anything. anyone who wants to argue with me over these views, feel free to, I love a good debate.

    swordsman21 said:

    Mwa ha ha, now it is my turn to put forth my crazy theories! First of all, I think it is entirely likely that the Gerudo, after the defeat of their leader Ganondorf, lost a lot of influence and power in the Zelda Universe, eventually leading to a decision to intermarry with the Hylians (possibly while hiding their true identities) and live with them permanently. As time passed, their new lifestyle adapted and the inner magic of their blood waned, allowing them to birth male children, until the last of the Geruda were completely assimilated into the Hylian race.
    I also believe it is entirely possible that the Zora involved into the Rito, as the sage bloodline reference is to large to ignore. I think the more modern evil Zora of the later Zelda games were more of a corrupt genetic offshot (anyone keeping up with Warcraft Lore can think about the Drainie going from the Eredor like race to the Lost ones).
    Gorons, I say alive in all zelda games up until the later ones, then they may be, I don’t know. I still hold onto the now controversial view that LTTP predates Wind Waker for a variety of reasons, meaning that I believe the Gorons are in LTTP, just not mentioned.
    The Kokiri, of course, evolved into the Koroks (although this does raise the question if these are the same guys from OoT, as it is implied that the Kokiri are immortal) and as not even Link knew about the Korok until meeting them, they still roam the Earth, spreading their seeds and planting their forests, all the while avoiding the clumsy big people.
    As for Deku scrubs… dead, screwed over, off the planet, gone, how ever you want to put it.
    Anything else… nope, can’t think of anything. anyone who wants to argue with me over these views, feel free to, I love a good debate.

    I can argue with some of those comments. First off, this one is a big thing for me, but I do not see evolution possible in the Zelda Universe, because evolution requires aleast several million years for an amoeba to become something more complex, and these events happened only several centuries, so magic (not just the green bar people) is a major factor in the change of the races (others are hormones, but we’re not getting anywhere near that subject) Ok, if you paid attention to some of the evidence of TWW and OoT, the Rito sport the symbol of the Zora, which is the Zora’s Sapphire, or the Spiritual Stone of Water. Another thing is, the anatomy of the Zora and Rito are similar, because: fins=wings, bag o’ flesh from head=lots of feathery hair, big fishy nose= beaky nose, finned feet=talonned feet, and finally, purple eyes=red eyes (they should see to some Visine XD ) I cannot explain the disappearance of the Goron, and I know that the Deku Scrub

    • JC says:

    On the evolutionary scale, didn’t the bird evolve from the fish? ;-)

    I accidentally submitted my comment, so I never got to finish what I wanted to say. Anyways, I know that the Deku Scrubs were brought back by Ganon in Hyrule after a while. As for the Zola, I don’t have a clue, unless something comes up in PH, TP, or FPTPCRL (Freshly-Picked Tingle’s Pink Colored Ruppee Land) and for the Goron, they probably moved into the mountains in search of the gourmet rocks, and dug so deep they probably were safe in the deepest reaches of Hyrule’s crust, away from flood waters. I suggest that the Zora did split into two different groups, on the group that changed into the Rito, they inbred with the Hylians and became humanoid, then when they were sent up the mountains, they became the Rito, as for the side that became the Evil Zora/Zola, they inbred with the Gerudo, and the spell/curse remained all powerful, since I read around various Zelda sites that the Zola are mostely females, and usually don’t do so well on land. Remember, these scientific ramblings are just theory, and should not be taken seriously, and Robert, please don’t yell, “I DO NOT BELIEVE HH, LALALALALALALALA!!!” Plus, my theories are dependent upon the STT (single timeline theory, something TML used in another post) and could be beaten only by the MTT (multiple timeline theory) and mangas (should one take them for canon that is) and maybe listening to others may help me solve some more holes, of course my own theories could have holes themselves.

    Hmm…. I was under the impression that the “pirates” who controlled Forbidden Fortess in WW were Sheikah, due to the shield with the Sheikah insignia on it in Ganondorf’s room, but… I might be wrong. I beleive there was an article on the Sheikah somewhere on the blog that mentions this- I’ll go look.

    Archaic Sage said:

    Of Koroks and the Deku Tree…

    Po-tay-to, po-tah-to. I figure the Deku Tree is “divine” enough to potentially count my definition. ;) However, divine intervention would be enough to explain the Rito from the Zora…

    Regarding omission…

    Of course, you fell into my ambush. Let’s even pretend that Smaug (your dragon) isn’t just “one of the last” dragons but THE last dragon. And then let’s pretend that Tolkein, later in life, decided to write a sequel to Lord of the Rings (sort of comparable to the Legend of Zelda in this way)… but he goofed up and included another dragon. Sort of changes the whole story, neh? It would retcon history. (Games work on a very similar premise, but not always.)

    The argument you present has a similar flaw to this, but it’s more complicated. With LoZ, we have to deal with subsequent prequels to the original. There are no Gorons in Legend of Zelda in 1986 because they weren’t conceptually born until 1998. As such, there’s no way that they could have been in the original. You can certainly use this information to say that the story as presented in 1986 is factually true to the letter and that the Gorons had died… but a legal interpretation is also that you can retcon the series to include Gorons all the way back to LoZ… with the provision that we just, as players, never see them.

    Regarding intermarriage…

    With magic… anything is possible. Even interspecies children that are free of deformities. I mean, if the Gerudo are only able to bear one male child every 100 years (which would defy all genetic probability), I’m certain that… something could be arranged. ;)

    I just want some clear answers about the Sheikah, are they alive or are they dead and if so then what could whipe out an entire race of Shadow people?

    BTW TML & Archaic Sage the Dragone were in “The Two Towers” and “The return of the King”, werent the Nazgul/Ringwraiths rideing them?

    Of course, you fell into my ambush. Let’s even pretend that Smaug (your dragon) isn’t just “one of the last” dragons but THE last dragon. And then let’s pretend that Tolkein, later in life, decided to write a sequel to Lord of the Rings (sort of comparable to the Legend of Zelda in this way)… but he goofed up and included another dragon. Sort of changes the whole story, neh? It would retcon history. (Games work on a very similar premise, but not always.)

    The argument you present has a similar flaw to this, but it’s more complicated. With LoZ, we have to deal with subsequent prequels to the original. There are no Gorons in Legend of Zelda in 1986 because they weren’t conceptually born until 1998. As such, there’s no way that they could have been in the original. You can certainly use this information to say that the story as presented in 1986 is factually true to the letter and that the Gorons had died… but a legal interpretation is also that you can retcon the series to include Gorons all the way back to LoZ… with the provision that we just, as players, never see them.

    The thing is, Tolkein already had his world laid out :P .

    With Zelda, if we base this around the agreed timeline (and let’s face it, the agreed timeline is the OoT > MM > TP > TWW > PH > INSERT OTHER GAMES HERE > AoL) this argument is going to sound flawed. Yet, it we discuss it in the terms that the Gorons hadn’t been invented in 86, but they were invented in 98 it takes the fun away from everything. Moreover, Nintendo have got to make up some reasons why these creatures don’t exist if they want to make a game that’s after PH.

    With magic… anything is possible. Even interspecies children that are free of deformities. I mean, if the Gerudo are only able to bear one male child every 100 years (which would defy all genetic probability), I’m certain that… something could be arranged. ;)

    Magic is boring though. lol

    I just want some clear answers about the Sheikah, are they alive or are they dead and if so then what could whipe out an entire race of Shadow people?

    BTW TML & Archaic Sage the Dragone were in “The Two Towers” and “The return of the King”, werent the Nazgul/Ringwraiths rideing them?

    With the Sheikah, as they made such a small impression in OoT, but their symbol seems to be a recurring theme throughout the games (Look at Agahnim’s clothes), I think they’re still about, just making a small impression upon us.

    With the dragons, we are unsure what they flew. The films made them out to be almost dragon-esque. But in the actual books, the flying Nazgul are just referred to as the Winged Nazgul. There is also no reference to the creatures in The Silmarillion either.

    Archaic Sage said:

    Yet, it we discuss it in the terms that the Gorons hadn’t been invented in 86, but they were invented in 98 it takes the fun away from everything.

    As you’ll remember I said, I firmly believe that your theory is not incorrect; it is as plausible as the next. Nevertheless, in the arena of unprovable ideas (as these are), the existence of an alternate explanation prevents the original from becoming gospel truthhood, thus speaking to my initial premise. As is quoted in a great fanfiction “Fluffy Yipping Thing”, “That was a phraseological ambush.”

    Moreover, Nintendo have got to make up some reasons why these creatures don’t exist if they want to make a game that’s after PH.

    Perhaps… perhaps. Be seeing how scattered their telling of the tales is from game to game and knowing Aonuma’s creative slant, I wouldn’t be surprised if has already reinvisioned it the game in his head.

    I agree with TML: The Gorons weren’t actually invented until OOT so it can´t be in LOZ, AOL, ALTTP and LA, and that goes with lots of other races, too (Deku, Minish etc).

    As with the Zora-Rito thing; there’s one thing that many people overlook: Greatfish Isle! So many people expect to see some problem solving in TP but they always overlook PH.

    Now, If Jabu Jabu later became Jabun, then would he not look over the Zoras? In TWW, you never got to go to Greatfish Isle until after obtaining the second pearl. But, when you finally get there, the whole place is destroyed. Jabun escaped but what of the other residence of that Island? You never see them! “But, what about PH?” Some people might say. My response is: It happens AFTER TWW so maybe you’ll see Jabun again! (although, if they don’t explain anything there, I agree with the Zora into Rito theory. Why? Well, there is all that stuff about the before the great Valoo they used the Grappling hook, resemblance to Longshot hidden in temple guarded by the Zora etc.)

    So, final conclusion on Zora-Rito: Wait for PH, THEN do all the speculating you *NAVI* want! All right!?………Although…TP might also have some answers but PLEASE wait ’till PH.

    But, there’s still Gerudos and Dekus left.

    Gerudos…”They dissappear after the Great flood, right? Wrong! They come back in FSA!”…that’s what I could say, but, unlike almost all of you, in my timeline, TWW is the last game! (except for PH, of course) so, I can’t really say much on this subject, eh? But, I could go on forever with why TWW is last but…this is supposed to be about the races. Next up is…

    Kokiri. Well, they’ve always isolated themselves from other races and, so, they were never mentioned (and with the first four games that were made, well, look tho the top; they belong there with the Dekus and Minish)

    ………But what about the Sheikah? Well, there’s always the Pre-OOT rule (see top) but, why were they never seen again? Well, by the time of OOT, they were already nearly extinct so, with the flood, maybe they died completely. Or maybe much sooner. But, we don’t know, so I can’t really give a definite answer (or on any others here)

    Hopefully that clears something out, if not, then I am deeply sorry for wasting your time (and mine, it took some time writing this!).

    On the Sheikah real quick, perhaps they were able to somehow save their bloodline. Just as the Gerudo were able to remain all female if they raised there children as Gerudo, maybe the Sheikah would be able to remain Sheikah if they raised their children as Sheikah.

    It was mentioned that Nintendo was going to “revamp” the Zoras. Perhaps they will show the Zoras in the process of evolving into the Rito. And sometimes evolution can occur quickly. Maybe not for the Zora to Rito, but once again divine intervention comes in handy. And magic can be very interesting; especially if I’m using my sagely powers of fire to burn something. *insert evil grin here*

    I agree with what TML is saying. Just because it isn’t in the game doesn’t mean it’s not there at all. The earlier games, while advance for their time, may not have been able to add in the other races; Nintendo could have already came up with the other races. Or maybe they were not significant to the story, as TML said. And writers certainly have license to rework their story’s timeline; it’s just that hopefully they can do that before it is published. And supposing that it is already published, they can come up with something. Let’s say that Tolkien wrote a sequel to The Lord of the Rings and included dragons in it. If in The Hobbit it was said that Smaug was the last dragon, Tolkien could treat The Hobbit as if someone from Middle Earth actually wrote it (which he did, it appears)and say that the Middle Earthling (I guess I’ll call them that) made an error. Indeed, legends are passed on by word of mouth and can easily be changed until it is officially written down. The Legend of Zelda is no exception.

    The Goron are all over the place, so what if they all died out in Hyrule, there are others in Termina and Holodrum, so the Goron merchants in TWW could have came from there. In my timeline, FSA does come much later in the line, so the Gerudo AND the Deku made it that far, but of the Kokiri I haven’t got a clue after TWW. The Zora->Rito is actually the most complex theory of all, considering most people use evolution to describe what happens, but, why would they evolve, as people said before, the ocean would support the Zora, yet we’ve seen no more since the Oracles. There are also many other Zora in other worlds, so one location would be ok, as long as there aren’t mass disappearances all over, and we would know, too. To the Hyrulian Zora, rock on, forever, until others come to replace you. Anyways, the Skiekah wouldn’t necessarily be the pirates that fought Tetra’s family, but the shields are a nice war trophy, or copies of an original. If you look at some ancient cultures today, you’ll see some similarity to each, like some flood that wiped out the planet or something, with eight people and two of each animal on a LARGE boat (like Noah’s Ark) or some like Atlantis. So, the culture that left those shields were probably related to the Shiekah, but were not exactly like them. Think of it, like the Greeks and Romans. One last thing on the Zora=Rito, the Zora, are like a nature folk or something, highly adaptable, like natural superhumans or something, so it would make sense that there may have been intermarriage or something (maybe Link did go out with Ruto, just kidding)

    There is a possibility (though I have nothing to back it up, lol) that the Sheikah and the Gerudo could have joined forces after the Great Flood.

    BTW Well TML maybe the Dragons were just sleeping deep underground like the Balrog of Moria, waiting for the right time to rise again… or maybe some greedy Dwarfs digging for Mithril woke them up, lol.

    Hyrulian Hero said:

    the Skiekah wouldn’t necessarily be the pirates that fought Tetra’s family, but the shields are a nice war trophy, or copies of an original. If you look at some ancient cultures today, you’ll see some similarity to each

    That’s true. Example; the ancient Buddha sign, the Manji, is a sign of……I can’t really remember, but, it’s something prosperous or good…although, it bears an extreme resemblance to the nazi sign, which most people around the world hate! It could just be something like that.

    In my opinion, Kokiris don’t evolve to Koroks, but are Koroks in disguise, transformed by the Great Deku Tree so that Link might not feel different. (That’s why they disappear when you’re far from them). After the Flood, the GDT returned them to their original state:

    Once upon a time, long ago, the Koroks took on human forms, but when they came to live on the sea, they took these shapes.

    Concerning Gorons, I think they nearly died out after the Great Flood, and abandoned Death Mountain.

    About Zoras—>Ritos the question is more complicated: they own the symbol of the Royal Zora Family, Medli is a descendant of Laruto and Rito initially didn’t have wings, before they learned to acquire them from Valoo. But Jabun’s island seems to have been habitated before, presumably by Zoras, since they it is not likely that Jabun lived alone, and Zoras are known, at least in Windfall Island . Because of these, I’ve got the following theory:

    I think Zoras are like that because of Jabu-Jabu’s influence… have you noticed that they seem more fishy when they grow up? (Yes, I know in Termina they don’t have any Jabu-Jabu, but Termina doesn’t work like Hyrule, because there are too many differences between species in Hyrule and in Termina)I believe it because Zoras seem to be compatible with Hylian, and Ruto implies in the following quote that you can actually become a Zora:

    All right! You actually decided
    to become a Zora!
    Are you actually ready to marry
    me now?

    Zoras are also mammals, something really strange for evolved fish (look at Adult Ruto). Moreover, they have notable morphology differences, I think depending on their relation with Jabu-Jabu (the King is more like a fish than normal Zoras, and also Princess Ruto is).

    My theory is that, after the flood, since “They yield no fish to catch…”, not many fish are able to live there, even not the Zoras. Because of this, most of them went to Death Mountain (now empty because Gorons have already abandoned it), where they would learn to fly, taught by Valoo. Before they learnt to fly they used a modified version of their Longshot, the Grappling Hook. The other, really few, Zoras remained with Jabu-Jabu, now Jabun.

    Yes, I know it’s a really crazy idea, but I think it actually makes sense. *Hides for the critics* Now, start criticizing!

    Hey Arturo your theory on the Zoras makes sense, I hadnt thought of it that way before.

    Arturo, you may be right on some points. Jabu-Jabu and Jabun are different, since Jabun has a much larger intellect. As for the Zora being mamillian, it is possible, because in reality, fish only get fat from pregnancy, that that’s a pretty good theory, supported by evidence seen with the King the best. Just remember that they had fish ancestors, so that’s why I see how people could think of it being evolution, but if the Zora did indeed turn into the Rito, that means with the Evolution Theory, they never had any contact with Hylians, but became Lizalfoz/Lizardmen, then the Rito. I believe that we’re getting close to solve the Zora=Rito changes, but there are other theories of the races here as well. As for the Kokiri, we definitely know that the Kokiri became the Koroks, and the Deku Tree had to help them with this. Because he created the Kokiri, he can manipulate their physical forms to fit what the current world is like, considering this: During OoT, we have a lot of flat land, not too much rough topography, so the Children of the Deku Tree took a humanoid form of the Kokiri, and when TWW came around, they changed, to fit a form better use over the ocean. They became airborne because of the dangers in the sea itself, so the Deku Tree made them small, light, hollow, and facless (I dunno what went on with that last one) to help them live in the sea, and when the sea drained, it is possible for them to return back to the Kokiri, but we have not evidence as of yet, but maybe the future games will give us more answers. I actually enjoy these debates, since they are Zelda related, and I learn stuff as I try to figure out the evidence, so hopefully, this will last a long time (before the next ASSA or Whose Blog? comes up that is) anyways, as for the Goron, Gerudo, and Shiekah, I haven’t a clue for now, but maybe something will come up. Speaking of Gerudo, they may have disappeared with Ganondorf when he was defeated, or died out in the Imprisoning War.

    Hyrulian Hero said:

    Just remember that they had fish ancestors

    There’s no canon evidence that tells they had fish ancestors, but the NOA guide, which is non-canon.

    JC said:

    On the evolutionary scale, didn’t the bird evolve from the fish? ;-)

    Hear hear! Hyrule can be a wacky place for evolution to lay its foundations. But it just goes to show anything can happen in Hyrule. Even for Gorons to evolve into Fountain fairies! Although I’m still working on THAT theory!

    Arturo said:

    There’s no canon evidence that tells they had fish ancestors, but the NOA guide, which is non-canon.

    Here’s where paying attention to game help (heheheh) I learned somewhere within the game itself someone says to Link that during Hyrule’s Creation, the Goddesses made the fish of Zora’s Fountain THE Zora. I haven’t been able to play it in a while, but I remembered that when my sibling was playing.

    Remember another thing:

    To get wings, Rito have to get a scale from Valoo.
    Zoras have special scales (Silver and Gold Scale) that make you dive more.

    More interestingly is that mermaids on Greek Mythology were half women, half birds, not half fish.

    Food for thougth

    I didn’t know that, interesting. Anyways, this may also mean that the Rito are also mamillian (I know certain sharks are born live, but this is a new in birds) And earlier, after my post, I had this thought, what IF the Imprisoning War is the reason for some of the races disappearances. You know, like nearly forcing certain races into extinction. No doubt that the Kokiri and Deku wanted to avoid war, so they probably moved on into the deepest parts of the woods, while races capable of fighting were nearly wiped out by others, like Zora, Goron, Gerudo, Shiekah, ect. The Goron were probably forced into unknown territories in order to find food not known by the enemy, forcing them into deeper parts of the mountain, or areas non-exsisting in OoT (hence the exsistence of the Goron Mines in TP) as for the Zora, they probably were nearly wiped out of exsistence, and intermarrying with Hylians in order to survive, thus creating hybrids that later on turning into the Rito, as for the Gerudo, they probably were forced either into the deepest parts of the desert, became victims of intermarriage (either with the Hylians or the Zora ;) )or went into the Dark World with their leader, Ganondorf (now who gained 300 lbs in his stay) as for the Shiekah… *pulls hat out of nowhere, then holds it to heart as a trumpet plays in sorrow* they will be sorely missed. Well, that’s my theory.

    Vaa said:

    Ok… where to start…

    First, the Zoras. You are wrong to assume there is a distinction between the Zola and Zora. Zola was simply a mistranslation in the original Zelda that has been fixed in later games. From what I understand, in Japanese, “l” and “r” are interchangeable for a certain Japanese character.

    Hence dah leason da Japanese can’t say their “r”s

    Not to take the fun out of it, but you know, they could just all be an after-thought jammed into sequel-made prequel games in the series ;)

    Yeah, “Zola” was a translational error, & yeah, it did NOT appear in A Link to the Past under that spelling, but I think it’s pretty visually clear that these are two different species of fish-person.

    Well, we have to find a way to label the different Zora, since Good Zora or Evil Zora sounds like a plate of sushi (did I spell that right?) other than the Good Zora capable of using electricity, while the Evil Zora use fireballs, maybve we can go with Electric Zora and Fire Zora? Anyone else have ideas?

    How about Shadow Zora’s?

    Hyrulian Hero said:

    Well, we have to find a way to label the different Zora, since Good Zora or Evil Zora sounds like a plate of sushi (did I spell that right?) other than the Good Zora capable of using electricity, while the Evil Zora use fireballs, maybve we can go with Electric Zora and Fire Zora? Anyone else have ideas?

    I have two comments on this.

    The first is remarkably short. In fact, it’s only two words:

    You’re strange.

    The other, however, is a bit longer and has more thought put into it:

    You said that ocean Zoras (good ones) use electricity. I’m going to guess you saide that because you can use an electric current when you use the Zora mask in MM. But, that was only because of Link’s magic power. Normal ocean Zora probably can´t do that and, so, calling them electric- and fire Zora would be wrong………But, even if normal ocean Zora can use it, It’s still strange to use THAT to seperate the groups.

    I think I have said enough on this and hope you understand my plight……or words…………………

    Hyrulian Hero said:

    Arturo said:

    There’s no canon evidence that tells they had fish ancestors, but the NOA guide, which is non-canon.

    Here’s where paying attention to game help (heheheh) I learned somewhere within the game itself someone says to Link that during Hyrule’s Creation, the Goddesses made the fish of Zora’s Fountain THE Zora. I haven’t been able to play it in a while, but I remembered that when my sibling was playing.

    It’s important to use in-game quotes for your statements. That stament is nowhere in the game (I have just looked for all times it talks about fish in the text dump), but in the NOA guide.
    Not having played for a while isn’t a excuse, since we have wonderful text dumps and quote FAQs that have the texts.

    I never understood why they put important information within gameguides, if I hadnt read the Metal Gear Solid 3 Gameguide then I never would have known that Boss wass Ocelots mother and that the Sorrow was his father, why exactly do they do that?

    Hyrulean Hero, are you German by chance? That would explain why you remember OoT claiming that magic caused the fish in Zora’s Fountain to evolve into the Zora people, even though it’s not in any textdump… I mean, it’s said like this in the German text version of OoT, but our localization team most likely made that up ^_^”

    I’ve never been to Germany, sorry Jumbie, NO ONE WILL KNOW WHERE I LIVE!!! I just have a good memory, but I swear I do remember reading somewhere that the fish in Zora’s Fountain changed into the Zora. And yes ZELDAFAN!n_n , I am weird, but in a good way. So how should we classify the Zora, eh ZF!n_n ? Maybe we should look upon how to classify them in a new way, because we can’t necessarily call one Ocean, and the other River, or refer to them Good and Evil, or Zora and Zola (btw, they happen to be actual people names, I found that out in an old Social Studies book) plus, there is also another sub-species of Zora, found only in the Dark World (ALttP) which are Cyclops Fish. Seems like everyone lost interest of the rest of the races, because the last few comments are about the Zora (man, this is long, heheh)

    Well you gotta admit that the Zora are one of the coolest races in the entire Zelda verse, they swim, they can do kung fuu, they can (probably) turn into bird people, and they have no problens with inter-species relationships (Link and Ruto anyone… who says he ended up with Malon or Zelda, lol) so come on guys who can think of a cooler race of people?

    One thing I’d like to note is that the goron that appeared in the TP trailer attacked Link. Since this takes place before TWW, we could possibly make an argument that this action has something to do with the lack of gorons thereafter. The problem is without knowing his motive, it’s purely conjecture.

    Bah! BAH, I say! The Zora’s did not simply magicate into the Rito! They were still existant!

    The only clear piece of evidence is the entire Laruto/Medli thingo, which, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda_series_races this was a mistranslation of sorts, and… well, it’s not quite “descendant”. And the Zora’s are too cool to die out! =P

    The thing is that Laruto really didn’t die long after the Wind Waker, as Ganondorf would have only recently escaped (otherwise he would’ve taken over the world already), and 1 or 2 years isn’t enough time for the Zora’s to become the Rito.

    Many races are present in multiple games, but only Hylians are present in the majority of games. The Deku aren’t present in every game, does that mean they died? No.

    The Zora were probably hanging out with Jabun in the Wind Waker, and then ran away when Ganondorf started being a turd to them.

    Besides, most timelines feature the Oracles towards the end of the series, after Waker.

    Ultimately, it’s a touchy subject. Like the timeline, I think it’s best to come up with separate theories. =^o^=

    I think laruto probably existed further back.this is what laruto says.”I am a Zora sage. For an age, I offered my prayers here in the Earth Temple,praying that the power to repel evil would ever remain within the Master Sword. And yet…unfortunately, due to Ganondorf’s evil designs, the Master Sword you hold has lost this power.After his defeat at the hands of the Hero of Time, Ganondorf was sealed away…but not for all time. He was revived, and he returned to Hyrule in a red wrath.He attacked this temple and stole my soul,knowing that he had to remove the power contained in that enchanted blade”.since the rivival laruto talked about was followed by the flood and also 400 some years to tww,ide asume she existed along time ago (from tww anyways :) ).

    Great Lord Ephraim, I agree about Laruto being ancient, because Hyrule has the magic to make one live eternally, or until another great force (like Ganondorf’s) comes by and ends it, and with Laruto, we’re talking about a sumo Poe. I do not believe the Zora died out, but I do believe they live as the Rito temporarily, until the conditions are right to revert to the right kind of conditions. They supposidely formed in the Zora Fountain, right? So, what if, after the flood, they found it, and lived off of it until their blood was purged of any foriegn blood, then they would revert to their original, fishy forms that we know of well. If you think of it, though, the Zora have not appeared in a friendly form in Hyrule after the flood at all, meaning they either changed into something else, or just disappeared. One of my past theories went that the Rito eventually turned into the Wind Tribe of TMC, but, I need more evidense of such, I didn’t even see an insignia of the Zora anywhere. The elder does have quite a large nose, though. I hope we see some more of the Zora (and not as an enemy) in future games, the Goron and Deku Scrub have had it for too long.

    I don’t get it…..why does nobody put WW as the last game (except for PH, that is)? Didn’t the king especially say that, even if they did find a new land, it would NOT be a new Hyrule? Yet, all of the games; loz, aol, alttp, fs/a, mc happen in HYRULE! Even the oracle and la are originated in Hyrule (Link travels away from Hyrule in each one of them, sometimes by force).

    But, in regard of the races, well, I’ve already said enough but, if Nintendo won’t reveal anything about Greatfish Isle in PH, then I’d say that the Zora DID evolve into the Rito. There’s the Zora’s Saphire design, the desendency (if that’s a word…), and they weren’t always like this. If they’d have been forced to live in Death Mountain (a.k.a. Dragon Roost Isle) then they probably used the grappling hook to get around easier. Then, later on, Valoo comes along. He gives them scales, when they’ve come of age and they’d be able to fly. Eventually, the rest of their bodys evolve to adapt this new lifestyle. And, Viola; the Rito have come! But, why become Rito if the Zora form would be perfect in all that water? Well, just imagine if something happened long before the flood (like, it could have frozen over) and they’d just have to leave Zoras Domain (and the Gorons leave Death mountain, too…Well, I’ve still got some work to be done in that area…) and nothing of this had anything to do with the flood! Eventually, the flood’d come but why not just go back to the Zora form? they’d have forgotten their ancient Zora forms! And, even if they remembered, Then how could they turn back into Zoras? And there ya have it! Of course, it’s just one of a million theories and maybe TP could have some answers, too! But, regarding this theory, I’m mostly looking forward to PH.

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