ZeldaBlog

The Four Swords Paradox

April 7th, 2006 at 1:43 am by The Missing Link

The Timeline Mysteries – Part I

Now I know that people are going to see the word “Timeline” and run for the hills. Those that are daring enough to read a few more words to see the “Part I” will have hesitated too long, and it’ll be deer-in-the-headlights syndrome for them. (It’s too late now, suckahs!) However, don’t fret. I’m going to be spacing my three-part investigative study on the Zelda timeline out over the next many weeks. So bear with me; believe me when I say that I have plenty of other stuff planned that isn’t timeline-related. And I’ll promise not to at least make it comical… ;)

Just about everyone I’ve ever talked to who has played the Four Sword series has always come away from it with… a different taste in their mouth… a taste that’s not quite Zelda. Minish Cap aside, the first two games of the diversion in the series are, analytically speaking, quite different from the “Zelda formula” (as sinful as it is to even say that such a formula exists!). But let’s face facts: To date, Four Swords and Adventures are the only multiplayer Zeldas, and, instead of one grand journey, they’re broken up into a series of sequential episodes not unlike the original Super Mario Bros. game. (Even worse, there’s no Warp Zone!) Minish Cap on the other hand to me has always been the capstone game of all of the Zeldas. Minish borrows a little bit of Zelda from nearly each of the other eleven and packages it and a few new tricks together into a cartridge. Many have acclaimed it to be the return of greatness to Zelda, yet others have passed on its premise, not quite as happy with the whole Link miniaturisation process as others.

Just goes to show you that you can’t please everyone.

Yet even beyond that is the fact that the FS series tends to do away with many of the standard Zelda mainstays. There’s no Master Sword, no Triforce, no Ganondorf (sort of), and no rupees at least in Adventures. All the while throughout the games, the storyline gets all sorts of mucked up. Four Swords brings the newest boss in town to the table (off on a wild princess-marrying spree), Adventures reveals the reappearance of Ganon (whom everyone has forgotten only to be rediscovered by the Deku of all people… er… things), and Minish completely changes the whole history of Vaati and the Four Sword which had held the first two together to begin with.

And people expect to make a paradox-free timeline out of that? (Timeline people, this is what you call foreshadowing. Non-timeline people, you have my permission to laugh evilly now.)

Oh my, I’ve probably just scared some of you to death with that. Okay, well, let’s give the timeliners a little bit of hope. For the sake of argument, why don’t we just throw the rest of the series away for a moment. Now we’re down to just the three games in the FS series. Certainly we can make sense out of that, right?

If you’re thinking the answer is yes, you’ve got something else coming to you.

Students of Hyrulian History have studied long and hard to try to come up with a timeline, and very few will place Four Swords, Adventures, and Minish in the same place in the grand schema. Yet despite this, when people compare the three games together, nearly without fail a single pattern always emerges. Nearly every time, it’s Minish, Four Swords, and Adventures. Oftentimes, Minish predates even Ocarina, and Aonuma has all but supported this line of thought. (Of course, the first rule of the official Nintendo Club is “we do not talk about Nintendo Club Zelda timelines,” so he never came out and really confirmed it.) And because of this, the birds chirped merrily and fluttered happily, the flowers grew in the meadow peacefully, and the kids cheered because summer vacation had finally come.

Yet not all is as happy as everything seems in Zeldaland. Despite the global acceptance of the theory, certain problems arise… flaws in the theory that people tend to ignore.

  1. The Life and (maybe) Death of Vaati — At the beginning of Four Swords, Vaati is trapped within the Four Sword, having been sealed away by some other hero. At the end of Minish Cap, he was engulfed in explosions that would put a Fourth of July fireworks finale to shame.
  2. The Blade that was Broken — Call it a gameplay mechanic if you will, but the Four Sword just doesn’t work the same way in Minish as it did in the other two. As the legend goes, “It is said that the body of one who touches this blade will be shattered to pieces” (Zelda, Four Swords). Nothing about illusionary ghost-men that appear when you stand on funny looking tiles.
  3. How Much Is that Linkie in the Window? — In Minish, both in the introduction of the game and then within the Elemental Sanctuary, there are stained glass windows depicting the legend of the Four Swords. Holding up the sword in one is a blond-haired kid wearing a green dress skirt kilt tunic. But… I thought I was the first Link to hold this thing! Right? Right??
  4. And You Thought Internet Dating Was Bad? — The prestory to Four Swords was Vaati going off and kidnapping every maiden in sight. (And to think we praise the use of that little blue pill, too.) His mission in Minish Cap? Turning women into stone so he could find this Light Force… thing… Yeah, that’s going to win over the ladies.

So much for easy.

So let’s take it the other way. (Timeliners out there, humour me for just a moment. And then humour me some more if I’m not finished by then.) What if Minish was last?

“Oh no, TML, we can’t have that. Because…”

  1. Eyes in the Back of His Head — When we first meet the Wind Mage in Four Swords, he’s pretty much a big Sauron ripoff… a floaty… eye… ball… thingy. In Minish, he’s magically humanoid again, or more aptly an ex-Minish, only to go back to the eyeball thingy. (Stupid mage changes his mind more than Oprah.)
  2. The Four Sword, Mach Two? — With Four Swords (or Adventures for that matter) first, obviously the Four Sword existed prior to the prestory of either game. Yet Minish Cap somehow… creates… the Four Sword (and only then after you get through the Two Sword and the Three Sword).
  3. I’m sure you get the idea already…

So much for that.

Don’t even try putting it in the middle either. Trust me, it’s worse than either of these.

Eventually we get down to the eternal question of which came first, the chicken or the egg? Inevitably the answer is hopeless. Contradiction and paradox reign, and only those who believe utter nonsense timelines are immune. (Nyeh, nyeh, Masa. ;) )

So do we give up?

Well, I’m sure those who are only reading this for their daily source of humour are saying, “Please, let him say yes!” However, this professor of Hyrulian History cannot send his students into rampant despair! (Shame on you for thinking that!)

The answer is no, but before you cheer, hear me out. The answer is no, but at the same time, certain accomodations have to be made in order to remedy the inconvenience of paradox. No matter which way you play the game, no matter how you order the games, canon is right there to contradict whatever theory you make. The only logical way around that is… that canon… cannot be as canon as everyone would wish it to be. The only way to resolve a paradox in the canon is to do one of two things: (1) make rationalisations and qualifying assumptions, or (2) bend the facts. To say it in much more sinful terms, you have to either add to or subtract from the canon.

But this is where the slippery slope begins. If we must add to or subtract from canon, then canon… really isn’t canon at all.

And I believe that would be a The Missing Linkwhopin’. Feel free to tell the folks here that. ;)

To Be Continued…

Filed under Timeline, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, Minish Cap

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56 Messages from the Gossip Stones about “The Four Swords Paradox”

    Comments

    You know what? I’m just plain confused. I’ll just be like Link and be oblivious to everything. *goes off to play OoT*

    Perhaps I should post my 107 page “Legendarium of Hyrule” and let you pick it apart TML. But honestly, your point is perfect. This is why I do not stress so much over the official timeline, or trying to figure it out, so much as I’ve reserved myself to creating my own history of the events of Zelda, as I see it fit, which suit my personal tastes and sort-of-work with the official stuff. I don’t know, it was much easier to do and much more rewarding.

    Let the timeline debates continue…it’s like trying to catch your own shadow.

    You spelled “dating” as “daying”…heh.

    And this is why we don’t edit ZeldaBlog articles at some unsightly hour in the morning. Fixed. ;)

    Not that it answers everything, but I’d like to point out that the Four Sword created in MC is the original Four Sword reforged. This answers point 2 in the “MC can’t be last” list of arguments.

    i always thought that minish/fourswords/adventure took place after wind waker, but then we see that he is using the white sword in MC, one of the swords in the original, and in the stain-glass window at the beginning of MC the hero of men was fighting the original pig/moblin-looking ganon. but it also mentioned the minish in the MC intro and that the white sword was made by the minish, and if you think about it the ganondorf from the WW intro (OoT ganondorf) was given the same look. so maybe it wouldn’t be difficult to assume that MC takes place in a new hyrule that was discovered/made after WW, and the hero of men was someone that wasn’t from any game yet. if that theory were correct, then that could place PH directly in place to be the story mentioned in the beginning of MC. but i doubt it.

    i personally think that if we dont know the answer to the timeline simply from playing the games, then it wasn’t meant to be known for sure. i believe it was made stretchable so that we can still make up a link between each game ourselves, while at the same time little kids and n00bs that pick up the newest zelda game dont get a whole bunch of background story thrown at them (kingdom hearts 2 anyone?). that would explain why miyamoto/anouma dont just explain it in all in a nintendo power interview or whatever. they must be doing something right, because it is one of the most well-recognised videogame series ever.

    Curse you TML! (Yes, that is how I choose to start my first ever comment.) We timeliners are still trying to figure out the inconstancies in the non-”Four Swords” games, and you go and throw this at us. Why must you torture us? Why?!

    FSA does seem to borrow a lot from A Link to the Past.

    the most logical way of doing it besides subtracting or adding would be to put the minish cap first.I mean,it does seem to be the first one considering it shows how vaati turns into the big black floating eyeball he is in the other two games.plus vatti isint sealed in the begining like he usually is. I cant justify the other link in the legend though,or on the stained glass…hmm…southern swamp tour guide anyone :) .

    Why oh why did you have to have a topic on timelines?!!! LoZ is being picked apart so thouroughly! Mabye thats a good thing… :)

    I really don’t think that the series has one time line I think that there are three. 1. the classic time line, LOZ, AOL, LA, Oracle series. 2. OOt timeline. OOT, MM , TP, WW, then maybe PH but can’t be sure until I play it. 3.four sword timeline, MC, FS, FSA. And as for ALTTP i’m really not sure what to place it in or even if it does belong to one.

    Lunar said:

    We timeliners are still trying to figure out the inconstancies in the non-”Four Swords” games, and you go and throw this at us. Why must you torture us? Why?!

    evil link said:

    I really don’t think that the series has one time line I think that there are three. 1. the classic time line, LOZ, AOL, LA, Oracle series. 2. OOt timeline. OOT, MM , TP, WW, then maybe PH but can’t be sure until I play it. 3.four sword timeline, MC, FS, FSA. And as for ALTTP i’m really not sure what to place it in or even if it does belong to one.

    Ironically, that’s a good idea as to what Parts 2 and 3 of this study will look at.

    And oh, I torture you because I’m evil. Mwahaha! :evil:

    Maybe TMC comes first, but then there’s a gap before FS where Vaati breaks free and kidnaps maidens. Then some how he gets locked in the Four Sword.

    Ye gods. First Tingle, now timelines. What has the Blog come to? x.x;

    Hey ya know all the trouble of doing ths now is stupid. TP is coming out in 4-5 months and will change everything. Also I think there’s a reason nintendo does publish one or think of one. Because every time a new game comes out it changes everything.

    I mean does not. Sorry.

    Not only does the Triforce of Time cover the Four Swords games flawlessly, it actually adknowledges the Four Sword dungeon in A Link to the Past GBA, which is something that -really- throws most theories off. When will this nonsense theory prejudice end?

    But on a less-serious (or for you, more serious!) note, besides the fact that I think it’s important to remember the Four Swords Dungeon in ALttP… I don’t think Vaati’s lady chasing problems are that huge of an error. I’ve never considered the Four Swords that big of a timeline issue, any more than I consider other games a problem.

    And as a final note, Four Swords Adventure is totally superior to The Minish Cap. Capstone indeed.

    The Missing Link said:

    The Life and (maybe) Death of Vaati — At the beginning of Four Swords, Vaati is trapped within the Four Sword, having been sealed away by some other hero. At the end of Minish Cap, he was engulfed in explosions that would put a Fourth of July fireworks finale to shame.

    See also: the demise of Ganon at the end of A Link To The Past. Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t most timeline people put the two NES games after that & assume that it’s the same Ganon? If so, then final blow explodey scenes mean little to nothing beyond show.

    Minish Cap has go before the other two Four Swords games because of the state of Vaati. So there are currently plot holes that need to be filled. Big deal. There’s been something of a plot hole for years as far as how Ganondorf went from having one piece of the Triforce in Ocarina of Time, to having none by the end of the Wind Waker, to regaining all three again in A Link To The Past. Or has that been tackled by somebody & I missed it?

    As to where the Four Swords games fall in the grand scheme of things, that’s still very much up in the air for me.

    Mike Fireball said:

    Minish Cap has go before the other two Four Swords games because of the state of Vaati. So there are currently plot holes that need to be filled. Big deal. There’s been something of a plot hole for years as far as how Ganondorf went from having one piece of the Triforce in Ocarina of Time, to having none by the end of the Wind Waker, to regaining all three again in A Link To The Past. Or has that been tackled by somebody & I missed it?

    “Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!” (Vizzini, Princess Bride)

    See, the problem with this is that you’ve countered your own proof. You’re presumption is that Minish must be first, but doing so creates plot holes (akin to the LttP story) that must be filled in. Well… if you then must add to or subtract from canon…

    What, pray tell, keeps us from explaining away Vaati’s alternate form in Minish should Minish… be last? My standard proposal for this is that maybe he had to revert himself to his standard form in order to crack the seal on the Four Sword due to (what I presume to be) his sealing in the Four Sword at the end of Adventures. (He actually disappears and floats off as a black orb… but then that orb later returns as Ganon.)

    The whole thesis of Part I is to say that it is very hard to prefer one timeline over another timeline the moment you say, “Well… it doesn’t work completely perfectly, so… I’m going to alter the facts in this way.” It’s the slippery slope that, once you use it, you allow opposing theories to use the same premise… which then makes the other theory immune to all debate based solely upon that premise.

    *blinks*
    this is all very confusing. I just wish that TP cold come out and settle these debates.
    *I scurry back into my hiding place*

    TMC is last of the Four Sword series, considering, in an unknown time (prequel to FS) Vaati became patra-like (has anyone noticed that major bosses like Ganon and Vaati are merely strong monsters) and was a little perverse, capturing maidens, then the unsung hero fought him with his blade (unsung hero made four sowrd) and used it as prison, then later in time, Vaati escaped from his seal and basically weakened the sword, then he was recaptured, then another Link, who had no sword with him went to fight Shadow Link, then Vaati, who was killed rather than recaptured, and in TMC, Vaati returned as a minish, and instead of being dazzled by Hyrule’s women (forgive me) he got tempted by the Light Force, or more well known the Triforce, and went to find it in a human like-form, and was defeated by his own greed and insolence to kill Link when he had the chance.So, until TP and PH, we won’t know what of Vaati is next, but I bet we will see more of him, since there’s only three games, and the first three Zelda games with Ganon wouldn’t make a timeline.So, until then, we won’t know much of our over-sized patra.

    Well TML, it makes sense… in a way. I’m already anxious to see Part II and Part III. Maybe “Phantom Hourglass” will help solve all of this madness (see the connection? Hourglass… TIME…?)

    umm yea… to confusing for me lol! ;)

    I totally understand, Lolly_England.

    Mike Fireball said:

    Minish Cap has go before the other two Four Swords games because of the state of Vaati. So there are currently plot holes that need to be filled. Big deal. There’s been something of a plot hole for years as far as how Ganondorf went from having one piece of the Triforce in Ocarina of Time, to having none by the end of the Wind Waker, to regaining all three again in A Link To The Past. Or has that been tackled by somebody & I missed it?

    Before I say what I’m going to say, let me let everyone know, I have yet to finish Minish Cap, and I haven’t played the Four Swords games. Now, why would Vaati’s form mean anything? If he can change into the Sauron-like thing, why can’t he change back?

    Now, on to the Triforce pieces thing: I solve that not by adding to or subtracting from the canon, but perhapse by bending it a little.
    I say that OoT was not the Inprisioning War talked about in the LttP intro. I think it came before it. At the end, Link returned to the past, effectivly preventing all the future stuff from happening (on that timeline). Link leaves Hyrule, and afterward he does, Ganondrof finds a new portal into the Sacred Realm (its possible, in LttP they where all over the place). Then all the stuff from LttP’s intro takes its course.
    Yes, this leaves out Wind Waker. I believe that WW and TP happen on the future timeline.
    That covers all the inconstancies but Ganon’s masterious rebirth in LoZ. To that I say that someone found a way to bring him back. Simple and clean. Then, following the LoZ manual, he steals the Triforce of Power (the Triforce of Courge having been locked in the Great Palace), and Zelda splits the Triforce of Wisdom.

    Josephina said:

    I totally understand, Lolly_England.

    finally someone agrees with me! Anyway really good theory, even if it went right over my head.

    O_o
    Oooookay….
    Perhaps, if there are holes in the timeline (whatever theory) that we can only explain by bending the cannon, they’re there so that they can be filled in by future games? If everything was explained we would be cursed to go ahead a singular, ploding game-by-game progression of time, wouldn’t we? And one of the things the Zelda games seem to pride themselves in is the fact that they jump around a lot. Seriously.

    But this is just me musing. I don’t really care about timeline one way or the other. The games are just fun to play.

    Honestly, Zelda Timeline Theories are more complicated than stupid tests you have to wake up early for and take all morning…but I personally would much rather think of that as opposed to SOH CAH TOA and other academics.

    You bring up a very good point, and when I absorb all this into my head… it actually makes very logical sense. Though I can’t connect FS/FSA/MC with everything else though.

    Yeah, no matter what Timeline you go with, there are going to be plot holes. Thus, there may never be one set in stone, though most of me believes this was intended.

    No offense TML, but I lost interest in this article midway through the second paragraph.

    The Wolfess said:

    But this is just me musing. I don’t really care about timeline one way or the other. The games are just fun to play.

    Just was about to say that. Why should we care about a Zelda timeline? I’m sure these games connect somehow, but why should we stress about finding out this stuff when it doesn’t matter?

    Its the human nature to argue about something until one person or another is satisfied, and Zelda has been dragged into many kinds, but its still fun to figure out something that doesn’t necessarily exsist (yet) like the Zelda Timelime.I usually go wit hwhatever sounds logical to me, and the way the FS series goes, it’s as logical as it can get for now, and later games will come up and change things in many ways, so until then, we’re guessing, we’re questing, we’re getting into each other’s hair if we don’t like another’s idea of something, and world peace will happen if we know who dunnit (little humor)

    Legend of Link said:

    Why should we care about a Zelda timeline? I’m sure these games connect somehow, but why should we stress about finding out this stuff when it doesn’t matter?

    The answer to that question, unfortunately, is the same as why we should care about whom Link should marry? Or what Link is really like, or what happened to the Zora after Ocarina? Or why we should care about the Zelda games to begin with? None of it is necessary for life, yet the fact that you’re active participants in a Zelda community demonstrates the answer to this very question.

    Because you enjoy it. Because you like to explore the possibilities. Sure, not everyone likes the same stuff, and so a non-Zelda fan would wonder the very same question as you are wondering here: Why are you so passionate about The Legend of Zelda at all? Some of us like the challenge and the immersion. To each our own. ;)

    Very good words of wisdom, TML. I agree to the fullest extent. :)

    I agree its enjoyment to consider the possibilities. Thats why I love zelda so much because it leaves you thinking and spectating about the game.

    It would take someone with a very big brain to Link (Geddit, ahahaha) all the games together into some kind of coherent Time-Line maybe Shigery Miyamoto San could find a way to Link them to The Past *lol* or maybe TML could find a way to Link them together to Awaken us or maybe it would take some kind of… Oracle of Ages, lol.

    Okay, well, here’s one for you. Compare the Hyrule of FSA and ALttP, and tell me what you see. They’re almost identical, right? Then, with the release of ALttP on GBA, the Four Sword was hidden inside the Dark World. There’s a whole new set of paradoxes for you to solve, TML. Now, as to adding canon, you’re right. With the Hero of Men (or whatever his name is) in the beginning of Minish Cap, then we must assume that there is a game that predates Minish Cap (TSA, if you’re reading this for whatever reason, I don’t give a damn about taking ‘The’ out of the titles. It’s adding ‘The’ that sets me off.) which has the Hero of Men (again, is that his name?) and he recieves the Picori Blade. It is similar to the Imprisoning War told of in the lore of ALttP. We do not have any solid evidence pointing to its exact location. (If you say that OoT is the Imprisoning War, then you’re wrong. The War was during a time when the Wise Men were sealing the Gate and preventing evil power from seeping from the Sacred Realm. OoT did not have any such thing. In fact, OoT predates the Imprisoning War and is more about when Ganondorf brutally murdered his followers in order to claim the Triforce for his own.) But, what we do have, is hints and clues. Anyways, I’m off topic, so I’ll leave here. But one more thing. Remember, over time canon will be added to fill in the gaps. Take Star Wars, for instance. The movies covered only a period of a few years, but there’s Expanded Universe media that goes all the way back to before the Old Republic. Just keep that in mind.

    Question, whats a canon?And another off subject thing: Stars wars goes on a long way, from 300 years before Anikan (did I spell that right?) to to several years after his death, thats all I know.Anyways, there are many holes in the timelines, but think of them as a roadway on a computer game or a video game, shaped to be fitted in certain ways, Zelda is like so, with many spaces, holes and unfitting areas, and the Four Sword parking space, and when it all falls into place, there will be a place for everything, so until then we thrive off of fan fics and ect.

    Master of ALttP said:

    Okay, well, here’s one for you. Compare the Hyrule of FSA and ALttP, and tell me what you see. They’re almost identical, right? Then, with the release of ALttP on GBA, the Four Sword was hidden inside the Dark World. There’s a whole new set of paradoxes for you to solve, TML. Now, as to adding canon, you’re right. With the Hero of Men (or whatever his name is) in the beginning of Minish Cap, then we must assume that there is a game that predates Minish Cap (TSA, if you’re reading this for whatever reason, I don’t give a damn about taking ‘The’ out of the titles. It’s adding ‘The’ that sets me off.) which has the Hero of Men (again, is that his name?) and he recieves the Picori Blade. It is similar to the Imprisoning War told of in the lore of ALttP. We do not have any solid evidence pointing to its exact location. (If you say that OoT is the Imprisoning War, then you’re wrong. The War was during a time when the Wise Men were sealing the Gate and preventing evil power from seeping from the Sacred Realm. OoT did not have any such thing. In fact, OoT predates the Imprisoning War and is more about when Ganondorf brutally murdered his followers in order to claim the Triforce for his own.) But, what we do have, is hints and clues. Anyways, I’m off topic, so I’ll leave here. But one more thing. Remember, over time canon will be added to fill in the gaps. Take Star Wars, for instance. The movies covered only a period of a few years, but there’s Expanded Universe media that goes all the way back to before the Old Republic. Just keep that in mind.

    That totally makes sense, Master of ALttP. Never realized that until now, thanks!

    The Missing Link said:

    See, the problem with this is that you’ve countered your own proof. You’re presumption is that Minish must be first, but doing so creates plot holes (akin to the LttP story) that must be filled in. Well… if you then must add to or subtract from canon…

    What, pray tell, keeps us from explaining away Vaati’s alternate form in Minish should Minish… be last? My standard proposal for this is that maybe he had to revert himself to his standard form in order to crack the seal on the Four Sword due to (what I presume to be) his sealing in the Four Sword at the end of Adventures. (He actually disappears and floats off as a black orb… but then that orb later returns as Ganon.)

    Ho HO, I see what you did there. I do hate it when people start filling in their own, made-up crap to explain what happens in between games, so upon reading this through again, it’s good to see someone covering all their bases. [This space reserved for obligatory Zero Wing joke] I’m interested in seeing where you’re going to take this.

    Of course, you’re not reading any of this because I POISONED BOTH GLASSES AND YOU ARE NOW DEAD

    Master of ALttP said:

    With the Hero of Men (or whatever his name is) in the beginning of Minish Cap, then we must assume that there is a game that predates Minish Cap

    We don’t have to assume that there’s a GAME before Minish Cap… just a story. They don’t necessarily have to make a game out of it, just like there’s no game containing the original Princess Zelda & her brother mentioned in the Adventure of Link.

    Master of ALttP said:

    OoT predates the Imprisoning War and is more about when Ganondorf brutally murdered his followers in order to claim the Triforce for his own.) But, what we do have, is hints and clues.

    There’s nothing in Ocarina of Time about Ganondorf brutally murdering anyone in order to claim the Triforce. For all we know, he could’ve been the only one to enter the Sacred Realm after Link so kindly opened it for him. The story you’re referring to is from A Link to the Past, & if you’re going to make those details part of the Ocarina era that was distorted with time, then you have to allow the possibility of Imprisoning War being included in with that, too.

    Ok this is really starting to annoy me now, is Link a Man or an Elf because he has huge fricken ears but sometimes he gets called human and sometimes they call him an Elf… WHICH IS IT?

    Link is a Hylian, neither man or elf. Just like how Spock is neither man or elf.

    Masamune said:

    Link is a Hylian, neither man or elf. Just like how Spock is neither man or elf.

    Beam me up, Scottie!Little humor, anyways, Like I said earlier, we only have bits and pieces of what will become a whole timeline, and it becomes fan-fictious when we fill in the holes ourselves, but thats what makes a story good, take The Book of Mudora, it’s based off of TML’s Timeline, yet he made it a large fan fiction to entertain people, and I have to say, he did pretty good, plus, in the real part of the story (of the games and Link’s actual adventures) it lets me know what goes on in games I never played before.

    hyilians have the long ears to “hear the words of the godesses.” other than that, they are… hyilian? how do you spell that anyway… haha :)

    I think a zelda time line exists,but I dont think it will ever be complete.some areas will be filled in but there will always be empty spaces,heres why.if nintendo makes sure theres always empty spots in the time line,there will always be a way to make new games and the series doesent have to end (well,not for a long time anyways).btw,ganondorf ends up killing a soldier after trying to get the ocarina (some sort of fight comes that kills some soldiers,but thay only show one) is that the same as brutaly murdering someone :) ?

    The timeline is always repeating itself though. There’s no way to figure out the junk in the middle between OoT and AoL. Or whatever you use as first and last. Ganon always gets ressurected or breaks ou of his seal and then the hero of time or wind has to go reseal or rekill him. It’s an endless loop.

    Light Link 007 said:

    The timeline is always repeating itself though. There’s no way to figure out the junk in the middle between OoT and AoL. Or whatever you use as first and last. Ganon always gets ressurected or breaks ou of his seal and then the hero of time or wind has to go reseal or rekill him. It’s an endless loop.

    Like Masa’s TToTT?Sorry, just saying, not to be mean.Anyways, I believe the timeline is strait, but still quite foggy of its true line, so it’s going to be fan fictious.Ok, time to help people who fear the word “Zelda Timeline” , Zelda Timelines are fan fictions, Zelda timelines are fan fictions, now repeat after me, Zelda timelines are fan fictions…gooooood, now take a deep breath, and let it out, now your time is up, pay me 1 million force gems, plz and thankyou ^_^

    Hahahaha but Masamune Spock is a Vulcan and not a man or an Elf… wait a minute Spock was actually half human… darn.

    -_- *sigh* Good thing I dislike Space Trek or whatever it is.If you think about it, Link is Half Hylian, the other half is…annoyed by Navi.Maybe thats why he turned Tingle.

    Ahahaha I aint to Star Trek fan-boy its just that I kind of grew up watching it so I have fond memories of it besides these days I just watch the movies.

    To Robert: Sorry dude, but the deadline for that joke in my metafic is up, I’ll just make you say a lame joke, sorry.
    To subject:Imagine what it’s like having Vaati’s powers, it’ll make my day.

    Well ive been off-line for a few days so I couldnt have sent you one even if I wanted to.

    Crud, I accidently erased my final round, so no more Comedian Fights.Anyways, I think that the FS series will be when Ganondorf is starting to stay dead.I was playing TMC most of the Time lately, almost got 100% (I just need four more heart pieces) and learned some interesting things.It appears that the “Light Force (LF)” can grant any wish, the only other object with such “power” is the Triforce (or as I call it sometimes, the Tetraforce) and I learned that it was a gift from the Minish, not from three golden god/desses (reference to TML’s latest Timeline article) and I think that the Triforce is the LF, meaning there are no Din, Nayru, or Farore.There are gods in Hyrule, but it seems like only the Three Golden Ones never appeared themselves.It seems that the Minish created the Triforce, and making them possibly more powerful than any other race, or more magical, and there are lots of stuff interesting about the Triforce, like only one piece is needed to make a wish (reference to OoT) meaning there is a possibility of a Triforce of Patience (Patience has something to do with time, ne?) I’ll do so more thinking of that later, but it seems like as time goes on, the Master Sword disappears, so the Four Sword somes out of nowhere.Surely, the current (and for now, seperate) timelines say that TMC comes dead last, but I think because of Vaati draining the whole Triforce from Zelda, it theoretically turned into another kind of energy, the Force Gems (notice that they are Triangle shaped, and there are four varieties? Thats hinting something or I need to cut back off of Chataeu Romani) and the remaining form of the Triforce turned more 3 dimensional and flipping upside down and having another color (reference to Zelda Cartoons * an organ goes “da da DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA”*) the Triforce seems to lost some potency, but still capable of granting wishes, it just lost the ability to infuse with people and leaving golden tatoos on them.However, Vaati maybe like Agahnim, just another form of the ego maniac we know as Ganon.Who knows, only “Time” (or Nintendo) will tell.

    Note:If you found some of my puns to be bad, you may throw me into a Pacman maze with Wallet Monsters in it.Thankyou..

    The Minish did NOT *Stares at H Hero evily* create the Triforce OR the Master Sword, I refuse to believe that.

    *runs across the room from Robert* Its just a theory, but a guard said that the Picori gave one of many things to humans was the “Light Force” The other was a Picori Blade, but I have no clue about where the Master Sword came from.I think the Master Sword still sleeps in the Lost Woods, and the Minish bring the Hylians the Picori blade in place of the Master Sword.They’re pretty much the reason that there are hearts in every blade of grass, the shells under rocks, the magic decanters where fairies should be at.Is there any HTML where you can underline something three times?They’re also the reason my chocolate milk powder disappears every night (it’s *NAVI*, forgive me)

    I believe that the Picori Blade is the Four Sword.

    I always thought you needed to touch the full triforce to make a wish,then you got the part that you wanted most (either that or ganondorf waisted alot of time in tww :) ) anyways the four sword has something to do with the triforce because its hilt has the triforce symbol on it (when you first turn mc on you can see it).ide guess the triforce is in the four sword or something like that.

    Or maybe the Light Force and the Triforce are two completely different things.