ZeldaBlog

Why Everyone Knows That The Zelda Old School Rocks

January 8th, 2006 at 6:43 am by Lady_Juliet

I’m in the generation that grew up with pixels. I saw games go from simple ASCII symbols to flat 4 colour pixel affairs, then finally 2D pretending to be 3D in the fact that pixels could be a bit more detailed and look like they weren’t actually flat. That was my childhood. Now I’m an adult things have changed a lot. I’ve been playing games since I was three and I’m now twenty-four. Yep I love all the bright sparkly new 3D graphics, I don’t drool over them but I do marvel at what programmers can do these days. I remember being impressed in the days of Tomb Raider and Alone in the Dark on my PC cos you had these entire 3D locations to explore, I was also terrified of playing these games because you got attacked from all sides! Someone really could sneak up behind you and you wouldn’t know about it because you could only what was in front of you, just like real life. Many a death poor Lara suffered because I hadn’t realised there was a vicious vampire bat hanging above my head, or an evil zombie smashing through the door to murder poor old Emily Hartwood as she attempted to escape the haunted house Decerto.

That was back in the early 1990s. It’s almost fifteen years later and its incredible what programmers can accomplish with videogames now. I’ve been used to having full speech in videogames since the 1990s thanks to Lucasarts – loved the talkie versions of Fate of Atlantis and the Monkey Island series for example, and I remember enjoying the little comments from the Starfox team in Lylat Wars; it really added to the games. Nowadays its not unusual to find a lot of speech in games, especially in cinematic style cut scenes. OoT blew the minds of most of the Zelda community when it came out with its beautiful 3D graphics and amazing new combat system. It was a massive step from the simple top down style of its predecessors. Twilight Princess is going to go even further in the graphics sense – it looks absolutely luscious. I’m hoping there’ll be more sound too, because Zelda is fairly mute and it’s about time Link learnt to talk. But even though I’m excited for all these new developments, sometimes I still yearn for a bunch of pixels. Call me sad, but there’s something about those old styles that will always endear to me and my generation.

The Old Man of Zelda 1 is such a classic figure amongst fans. His quotes, in poorly translated English are legendary in their own right. Who can forget “Digdogger hate certain kind of sound” or “East most peninsula is the secret”? Error from AoL has also attained something of a cult status amongst fans, even though he only has two quotes and really does nothing at all. They’re just bunches of pixels but we love them. I’ll always remember them more than characters from the later games. Zelda sprite sheets are always very popular and the sprite comics such as Zelda comic make me laugh just because they’re using the retro sprites. There’s so much character in them, even though they’re just little blocks of colour that often look ugly and ungainly. They somehow have more personality than any of the NPCs from OoT, despite their physical limitations.

As my friend Reaper’s Ritual said “It’s easy for us in our 20’s to appreciate 2D because we were growing up as things were developing, whereas the kids nowadays have everything ready technology wise. They don’t have to wait for good graphics because they’re here.”

I’d hate to see all the new Zelda fans turning away from the old Zeldas because they aren’t in 3D. However there’s just something about the old Zelda games that means not even the youngest fans don’t like them because of their inferior graphics and sound. A great example of how popular Nintendo know their series is was by the release of the Collectors Edition CD. I was annoyed when it was released along with Mariokart Double Dash! and a cube, because I knew that the package was aimed mainly at young gamers and I thought “How could they possibly appreciate the games on that CD? They’ll toss it aside when they realise the games are old.” But after a little research I realised that this wasn’t always the case. For example, just because there’s an 11 year age gap between me and my friend Felkatil, it doesn’t mean she can’t appreciate old games. Just the same as I played ancient games such as Colossal Cave on my PC, released in the 70s, Felkatil’s favourite Zelda game, LTTP was released when she was just a baby. When I questioned her about her Zelda preferences, I assumed OoT would be her favourite game, as seems the trend amongst most younger gamers.

“The old Zelda rocks and they were perfect in their own little way. The new Zelda is still good but it lacks some of the Zelda gameplay that you got in the earlier games Graphics mean nothing, it’s the gameplay that matters… sound; the old Zelda tunes are always good to hear, but I prefer some of the new tunes in the games like OoT. However OoT is not my favourite game, LttP is.”

I was interested in this response so I queried a few more friends across different age groups to see their responses on the difference in retro and modern gaming. My friend Janus is a few years younger than me, but he was brought up in the same gaming era as me and Reaper’s Ritual.

“The thing about classic gaming, is there were so many physical limitations to it. They had to use everything they had to make a complex and interesting game. The sound was dodgy and the graphics, even to us then, weren’t terribly impressive, but they didn’t matter then. That’s what we had and it kicked ass and it was fun on its own merit. Effort went into the melodies, even if there were only four channels of sound.”

There’s two things synonymous with retro gaming and that’s pixels and midis. I think we’ve already established what I love about pixels, so let’s take a look at the midis that Janus mentioned. Zelda I feel, has had one of the best videogame soundtracks since way back to LoZ. It was a travesty when the overworld theme wasn’t included in OoT. AoL and LttP rate pretty highly in my book as far as midi soundtracks though, and in the golden era of the SNES there were so many great games with great soundtracks far too numerous to mention, even though as Janus rightly points out, the composers didn’t have a lot to play with Koji Kondo always did his best, despite those limitations.

A final point to mention is expectations. We’re all so eager for bigger and better graphics, better storylines and better games that we’re more likely to get disappointed. I was one of the worst culprits for this with OoT – I ended up bitterly disappointed by the game because it was completely different to what I expected it to be. I’m trying not to be the same victim for Twilight Princess, which is why you’ll not see me getting too excited about it. I suppose I measure Zelda by the old games, and when OoT wasn’t like them, I got very upset and agitated about it. Zelda had changed, and not for the better in my opinion, but I was in a minority because if it wasn’t for OoT, I know the community wouldn’t be as strong as it is today. My sister Kirsty summed up the situation perfectly when I asked her on her opinions regarding the two eras of gaming,

“If people measure yesterday’s games by today’s expectations, they’re going to be disappointed - ironically, people who measure today’s game’s by yesterday’s expectations are going to feel the same way I think the values in gaming have shifted somewhat. For better or worse, gamers expect beautiful graphics - but they also demand deeper, more demanding story lines. We don’t expect these things fro from older games (though I’d argue even some of the oldest games have the greatest storylines and Zelda III in my opinion had beautiful graphics), and those that do are going to be disappointed. Gaming, I think, is becoming less about pure gameplay – we often want more than just that, sometimes forgetting that, at the end of the day, gameplay, not graphics, not story, not sound, is the most important aspect of playing a game. I’m not saying the other aspects are not important, but gameplay, in my opinion, is the key.”

So where do we go from here? Is there really much more we can achieve with gaming or is it going to hit its limits? Will we one day experience a Red Dwarf style ‘Better Than Life’ simulation where you plug into VR headsets and you can feel everything in a game as if it were real? And is this really something we want to do? Sometimes you know, it’s the simple things that please a human being the most. Although we crave progression, we also love our roots. There’s just something irresistible about them. It’s like watching old cartoons or listening to childhood songs. It takes you back. We always want to be younger. Maybe that’s why I love my old Zelda games so much. It reminds me of happier days when I had no responsibilities on my shoulders, well, other than saving Hyrule!

I love retro gaming because it’s simple. It’s effective. It doesn’t disappoint you. It’s got no pretences. And no-one can sneak up on you J So in the rush of excitement, for TP, let’s not forget Zelda’s humble roots. Now where did I put that NES pad…

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35 Messages from the Gossip Stones about “Why Everyone Knows That The Zelda Old School Rocks”

    Comments

    I know what you mean Lady_Juliet ever since I bought my 7 year old Nephew a GameCube I have also bought him GC versions of OOT and MM plus Wind Waker and he loves them… unfortunately the same cant be said for the older games such as LTTP (Which is one of my all time faves) which he refuses point blank to play because he thinks they are rubbish *sigh*. Oh well I guess ill just try again in 5 years or so.

    Yeah, I agree. The older games don’t get the respect they deserve.

    I feel it’s a bit of a shame that aLttP sometimes gets overshadowed by Ocarina of Time, just because of when it came out and the fact that it was 2D. I feel that aLttP really set the benchmark for the entire series, not Ocarina. Many of the reoccurring characters, theme musics, and mechanics originally came from aLttP, after all.

    And frankly, I practically cut my teeth on the NES titles.

    Two things:

    First and foremost, a friend and coworker of mine reveals this tidbit of wisdom: “Good software can overcome the limits of bad hardware; good hardware, however, can never overcome the limitations of bad software.” In short, there were failings back in yesteryear, sure, but what we saw then exceeded what we thought was possible then. (After all, the first “sound card” was developed by vibrating the floppy disk in the drive at a certain frequency.)

    Second off, and this is an important point, the old-school fans of Zelda are just as biased in their opinion as the new-school fans. I have to admit, I thought Final Fantasy X was a great game, but FFVII… Farore bless it, though I hear is a wonderful game, I can’t be bothered to play it for more than five minutes because it looks graphically horrible, as if I’m looking at “modern art” in motion. Sound familiar? It’s Wind Waker all over again. The reason old schoolers don’t criticise the Legend of Zelda today is because our judgments have different predipositions (since we lived through it) than new schoolers. It doesn’t mean we’re right, much as I love to believe so; it merely means that we all have different takes.

    In short, hardware doesn’t enable software to be something that it never could be; it merely provides a more sophisticated engine to bring that out. We old schoolers merely call that “depth”.

    Nostalgia is a dangerous thing. Games that I missed (Super Mario 64 for instance) and later came back to underwhelmed me. In this instance, I didn’t feel it was all that it was cracked up to me. But I had already tasted Ocarina of Time and various other PS1 and N64 games. On the other hand, I went back and played both Kid Icarus games (on NES and GB respectively). I got hooked on them. There was no nostalgia factor for me there, but I though they were awesome despite being inferior to everything else I had played lately.

    Other NES games failed to do the same. Final Fantasy 1 is boring and the first Metroid is confusing (even though I love the series, even Metroid 2 without its map). I missed these games back when I was actively playing the NES still. To me, as someone who does enjoy retrogaming, they didn’t stand the test of time.

    The Old School argument is always a dangerous one since nostalgia can be such a blinding factor. A lot of people around my age group will claim 80s cartoons were the best cartoons ever and they don’t make them like they used to. I would have agreed, but I’ve rewatched some of those shows. I, for one, am glad they don’t make them like they used to. There were some gems, but they weren’t all good (in fact, most were downright awful).

    The same thing applies here. Like Lady Juliet, I grew up with Legend of Zelda and The Adventure of Link. To me, they’ll always be golden games. I wonder, however, what my impression would be had I never played them and the first time I did was on the Collector’s Disc or on the GBA rereleases. Would I still have liked them or would I have had been turned off like I was to the first Final Fantasy and Metroid game? Hard to say, nostalgia can gloss over flaws in a game.

    So basically I do concur, Zelda Old School rocks. But Zelda New School rocks just as hard.

    I play 2d games more than 3d ones. My favorite zelda game is aLTTP, My favorite game is fire emblem (the 1st gba one), and im also playing final fantasy dawn of souls. as for LoZ and AoL, there too hard, i’ll watch them but wont play them, oh yeah and in twilight princess i dont want Link to talk, In one zelda game Link does talk, im sure my brother will write something about that later :)

    The first time I played LoZ and AoL was on the Collector’s Edition disk. I’d played them both for about a minute each, earlier, but not enough to make a judgment about them. I loved them though, once I finally got the chance to really play them.

    Of course, it’s not like this was my first taste of old-school gaming. I never had an NES or SNES growing up, but I always loved playing them at friends houses, and I did have a Sega Genesis, so maybe that’s why I could appreciate these old games. Still, I think that the main reason most younger gamers don’t appreciated old-school gaming is because they just don’t give the games a chance. They see the graphics and immediately think that the game is dumb. However, if these people keep an open mind, and appreciated the games for what they are, fun and challenging adventures, I’m sure they’d see the light.

    Lady Juliet quoted her sister as saying, “gameplay, in my opinion, is the key.” It is. Part of the newer Zelda life system is the quarter-heart. I don’t like the quarter-heart because it’s being used incorrectly. It allows for too little damage to be sustained from too great an injury. If Link were struck by a Guay, I could see him suffering a quarter-heart’s worth of damage, because it wasn’t that serious an attack. However, if he were picked up, spun around and thrown into a fiery pit of lava by a boss forty times his size (bear with me, it’s just an example), he should suffer a LOT more than that (and more than a full heart, while I’m at it).

    The older games were limited, of course, in expressing the amount of damage Link could take. The minimum was a half-heart, and oftentimes the baddies dealt a lot more damage than that. However, I think that made the games very challenging. You had to keep an eye on Link’s life, or you’d be beeping before you knew it. You’d kill some easy enemies or find some hearts or a faerie — which, unless you went to a faerie fountain, you could only seem to find when your hearts were full or near-full — or drink your potion, but you knew better than to set foot in a new dungeon where you didn’t know what was going to happen. In a modern game, with two full hearts, Link could still be all right, as hearts hide in chests or underwater or with a small enemy in the dungeon. Part of the challenge is gone because Link WILL survive.

    Even in the final set of battles in Ocarina of Time does this problem rear its ugly head. With the defensive upgrade from the last Great Faerie, if you miss at Magic Light Ball Tennis with Ganondorf, you only suffer one and a half heart’s damage (wait, so, lemme get this straight: Iron Knuckles are more powerful than Ganondorf? That doesn’t seem right….), and three with that dark energy stuff he summons. Lame! Either Ganondorf’s not that strong — but he has the Triforce of Power, so there goes that — or Link is too strong. He’s a hero and all, but he’s still just a kid; he shouldn’t be that powerful. In A Link to the Past, if you touched Pig Ganon with the red mail on, you suffered three hearts. Think about that: the red mail reduces your damage to a quarter of what it would normally have been, so Ganon’s evil sweaty bicep would normally take TWELVE hearts from Link. Given he maxes out at twenty…. WOW. And let us not forget that no matter what you had on you in the original Legend of Zelda, if you found yourself in Ganon’s room without the Silver Arrows (how many of you groaned when you realized it?), you were toast, plain and simple. You had to learn to be careful way back when, and now, I find myself recklessly hack-and-slashing my way through the games because I know Link will be okay. I’ve forgotten everything my childhood taught me. It should not be that way; that’s like forgetting the multiplication tables that were so mercilessly drilled into your head when you were in third grade (quick! What’s 6×8?).

    Nostalgia does play a factor in my opinions, but not completely; I didn’t grow up with every game in order like I should have. I didn’t touch Zelda II until I got it as part of the Collector’s Edition, but I can still appreciate it because it’s hard. I don’t like most of how it’s set up (its life system, for instance), but it’s a challenge, and it’s got all the Zelda-y elements in it, so I tolerate it. A newer game, like Final Fantasy IX, which I didn’t touch until last summer (along with the other FFs I played; I’m really new to the series. Gasp.), is a love of mine, though I can’t connect either game with anything except the past few summers. And yes, IX, not VII. If a brand-new, just-released game were to come along and be better than FF9 or LttP, I wouldn’t hesitate to admit that it’s better and cast the old one aside. But it would have to be better, not just prettier or have a deeper story. It usually requires a couple of play-throughs and picking the silly thing apart, but I never go on a first impression. There’s always something missed.

    Old School Zelda rocked because it was limited (enabling the gamer to fill in the gaps with his imagination, which added to the fun! A different game, a different world, existed to each person) and challenging. New School Zelda rocks because it’s pretty, informative and more capable. Which is more valuable depends on the gamer, but let us hope that Twilight Princess (sigh… too much hype.) has a healthy mix of both!

    “[…] gameplay, not graphics, not story, not sound, is the most important aspect of playing a game.”

    Sure, gameplay is indeed the most important aspect in a video game… but we must not forget too that when combined with a compelling storyline, beautiful graphics and great soundtracks fitting with the situation is actually improving the game far more than ithey would do if looked individually.

    That’s in part why I hated WW: the story was unimaginative for 90% of the game, the graphics didn’t felt like a possible immersive reality (don’t mismatch with realism), and the music sounded more like a Super Mario Sunshine soundtrack, which is totally out of place in an epic adventure.

    Ok sure, it was also too easy, the boat system was horrible, there was not enough deep levels and completing the Nintendo Gallery is almost impossible and far too frustrating, but even without those problems I don’t think it would have made my Top 50, unlike OoT which is my current #1 (TP I’m watching you…).

    SmashManiac said:
    Sure, gameplay is indeed the most important aspect in a video game… but we must not forget too that when combined with a compelling storyline, beautiful graphics and great soundtracks fitting with the situation is actually improving the game far more than ithey would do if looked individually.

    In a way, yes. Those elements enhance the game. But that stuff is literally just the icing on the cake. They enhance and add flavor, but are not and never are the end-all of the game. (RPGs are the exception to this it seems, which is understandable since gameplay is usually minimal.)

    Great job. I agree with most of what you said. Gamer’s tend to like the styles of games that they grew up with. I’m very fortunate because I grew up with equal tastes of old school and new school on my platter…therefore I like each style exactly the same. While, like most Zelda fanatics my age, my favorite game in the series is OoT my second favorite one is LA. The reasons why I like these two above the rest are completely different which reflects how I appreciate different aspects of the games. However, there is one thing we don’t quite agree on: the subject of gameplay. You use gameplay as an argument when referring to your preference for old school…implying that 2D gameplay in Zelda games is somehow superior to 3D gameplay. I disagree. I don’t believe the gameplay has gotten any worse in the transition between dimensions. It just receives less focus from the public (in most cases) because of the fact that gameplay has been revolutionized over and over and gamers are beginning to look to new things. I think that your preference for the gameplay in old school Zelda games is not a direct measurement of your appreciation for the gameplay itself but of your (I’m sorry) bias for ye olde Zeldas of yesteryear. As for my view, 2D has its merits and 3D has its merits.

    Dont hate me for this, but I am a bigger fan of the3d games simply that they can have more depth in them… and you can be attacked on all sides… It really makes you think that you are the hero of time fighting for your life, beset on all sides… WW is my third favorite game after oot and mm. WW had a certian… oh, some thing to it. Sure, it WAS kinda easy, and the enemies could be stronger( not that I want the redeads to be stronger,) but when you work hard to reach something, its sweeter at the end.
    Mind you, that does NOT means that I have totaly given up on the 2d, heck, Im playing four sword right now! But when you are at the era where graphics are getting better and better… some things kinda get washed out…

    Between 2D and 3D… I dunno… I treat all my Zeldas like Children and finally decided as of today that I plain don’t have a favorite… Though I have been playing alot of Majora’s Mask lately.

    The 3D’s have the great targeting system, but ALTTP seems to have a bigger world… Maybe its just me.

    I’m hoping there’ll be more sound too, because Zelda is fairly mute and it’s about time Link learnt to talk.

    What the-? If link talked, I think that would mark DOOM on the face of the Zelda franchise. If link talked, it would just be wierd.

    Legend of Link said:

    What the-? If link talked, I think that would mark DOOM on the face of the Zelda franchise. If link talked, it would just be wierd.

    You know, I used to swear this up and down to my friends, believing precisely as you did. However, now I’m not so sure. I’ve always believed that Link being mute would crash the imagination of the series, and I still believe that by and large; without Link’s (or Zelda’s) voice, we can imagine what they say, we can alter it with our own invented inflection, and thus question their true intentions from behind the text. (We have, after all, have had a lot of experience discerning… or misdiscerning… intention over the Internets.)

    Yet while we lose the inventiveness and creativity, we would gain two things from having (good) voice acting in LoZ. First, we would gain clarity. We would know the characters much deeper than we know them, and we would get a good handle on who they were. This didn’t retard FFX or Tales of Symphonia in the least bit. Secondly, and in consequence to the first, we gain further depth.

    It inevitably comes down to tradeoff. We lose something to get something new in its replacement. This is not a bad thing because we don’t want Zelda to stay the same-old, same-old for ever. Believe it or not, Link to the Past, Ocarina, Wind Waker… all of them were experiments… trying to see what aspects could be successfully brought into Zelda and what could not, and all of them were tradeoffs! This doesn’t mean that we can’t occasionally return to the roots of Zelda, and I think it’s important that we continue to do so. But that doesn’t mean we should unnecessarily shun new features brought into Zelda just because that’s not the way we’ve always done it.

    Our imagination overpowers all senses. The mind is more powerful than the software or the hardware. As long as the elements in Zelda, or any game, can tap into my imagination… I will always have something to hold on to, no matter what reality really is.

    SmashManiac said:

    That’s in part why I hated WW: the story was unimaginative for 90% of the game, the graphics didn’t felt like a possible immersive reality (don’t mismatch with realism), and the music sounded more like a Super Mario Sunshine soundtrack, which is totally out of place in an epic adventure.

    TWW was a great game, and the music fit with the graphics which i also liked. TWW is my 3rd favorite game :)

    VenusQueenOfFaeries said:

    Even in the final set of battles in Ocarina of Time does this problem rear its ugly head. With the defensive upgrade from the last Great Faerie, if you miss at Magic Light Ball Tennis with Ganondorf, you only suffer one and a half heart’s damage (wait, so, lemme get this straight: Iron Knuckles are more powerful than Ganondorf? That doesn’t seem right….), and three with that dark energy stuff he summons. Lame!

    (How do i un-quote) I agree taht ganondorf and gannon were really lame in OoT. that was the biggest flaw of the game. In TWW puppet gannon isnt disappointing

    [TML: When you press the “quote” buttons, they automatically include the “unquote” option, which is signified by the </blockquote> HTML tag.]

    alright,first let me say that link is’nt mute,in aol when you find the mirror for the lady he says “I found a mirror under the table”.pretty simple but atleast we know he can talk.

    anyways I like 2-d and 3-d games the same.I remember watching my dad play loz for like 5 hours,that was fun but dungeon music can get sickning after awhile.Ive won loz like 7 times,it was my favorite game and I still like it.I think both types are special in different ways,the classics dont have great graphics (even though theyre not that bad) but their the most competitive games in my opinion.but the newer games have good graphics and theres plenty of memory to put the story in the game.im not expecting to much out of tp but with how long its taking it better be good.I wonder if they will put tingle in tp :) .

    You probably don’t remember Link talking in Ocarina of Time either do you? Yes he did say something without any help from Navi or choice of words……Does anyone remember what he said in Ocarina of Time?

    Actually, Link did talk, in all games, when you say stuff like, “Yes/NO” or when in TWW, when he was interrogationg the ex-mayor’s daughter, he talked about all sorts of stuff, we just never hear his voice.I played ALttP when it came out the third time on the SNES.Those were the good ‘ole days, barely a care in the world (except for 1st grade and how clean our room was) but still, its was good.I have ALttP on GBA, a little changed, but its still good.We even have the CE, and My parents played LoZ until they beat it.I’m trying to beat AoL, but I didn’t get into it well because of its difficulty, but its still a good game (so far I need to get past the second dungeon before I get anything good) and nothin’ beats an’ oldie.Ironically, the disk is becomeing worn out and we don’t have a true disk repair machine, so I can’t play my other favorites like OoT, or mabye MM.

    Robert-UK said:

    …I bought my 7 year old Nephew…

    Does this mean I’m probably the youngest member here?

    I doubt it. :P

    Great article Lady_Juliet. I’m with that group of fans whose first games were LoZ and AoL, rather than LTTP, and OOT. To be honest I still play those two regularly with LoZ just last month.

    There is that difference between fans who have played the game first and those that play the games after the 3D ones. My own brother thinks the 2D ones are stupid simply because they’re old.

    Either way, one of the things I’m most excited about the Revolution is that it can play all the old Zelda Games on one console. That and the fact you can play it straight from the monitior. Ah nostalgia. :P

    Darth Citrus said:

    My own brother thinks the 2D ones are stupid simply because they’re old.

    Why I outta…lemme have him, I’ll put him right next to the old Ganon (LoZ) if I ever get my hands on him.My parents played LoZ when it came out, and it looked like a good game.If people don’t like 2D games, they’re not real Zelda fans, since most games are 2D (but most nowadays are so clear they could become 3D)

    Mr Miyamoto San did say that TP would be the last Zelda game as we know it, so who knows maybe Zelda on Revolution will have full voice acting.

    BTW Hyrulian Hero you may be the youngest here, im 21. I often get revenge on my Nephew when he says that the old Zelda games are rubbish, my parents and my sisters always let him win when they play 2player games with him but I however always kick his butt, I always stuff him as Link in “Soul Calibur 2″ and “Super Smash Bros Melee” which always upsets him XD.

    I have some things to say about this…

    First off, I know exactly what your talking about, Lady Juliet; but one thing you have to understand is that current generation gamers are just as bound to there generation as you are to yours. For instance, my first Zelda game was Ocarina of Time. In my opinion, it’s the greatest Zelda ever, and the greatest game ever. However, that opinion relies heavily on nostalgia. I can’t enjoy the Wind Waker as much, and I can’t so much as touch either TLOZ or AoL. (Although I consider ALttP to be the 2nd best zelda game)

    Masamune commented that nostalgia is a dangerous thing, and I totally agree. It’s arguable that The Wind Waker is a better game than OOT. It has better graphics. It has a more well-developed storyline. It has an improved combat style. In the technical sense, everything about it is improved. But why can’t I enjoy it as much as OOT? Nostalgia. After playing OOT, I have tried again and again to play both TLOZ and AoL. To my dissapointment, I can’t. They simply don’t hold my interest, and by today’s standards, nostalgia is the only thing keeping them alive. They are incoherent, the gameplay is minimal, the story is non-existant. It’s actually a funny thing when you mentioned how the old man with bad grammar is a “classic figure” Bad translation in a game today is not considered classic, it’s a flaw. Final Fantasy VII features one of the worst translations from Japanese to English in a videogame, and believe me, it’s not considered classic. So why don’t people mind it in TLOZ? Nostalgia.

    Don’t get quality confused with nostalgia. Zelda has come a long way since TLOZ and AoL, and even OOT, but a lot of people refuse to see it. I agree that it is a shame when people shun older games, and I’m not making an excuse for them.

    BTW, TML, I think it’s a real shame that you can’t play Final Fantasy VII. (I’m a huge fan, as my screen name implies.)

    By nostalgia, do you mean appreciating things because they were in your past, or appreciating things because they are somewhat antique? I just happen to be an example of the latter. This trait can be considered especially strange when you consider that I’m only 15 years old.

    Now, here’s the thing. I didn’t start playing Zelda until just three years ago. I was a late bloomer, even though I got an N64 when it first came out (this also happened to be my first system, excluding GameBoy). My first game was OoT, and I have to admit that I am guilty of the clouded view that Sephiroth_one speaks of. However, a little while after beating OoT, I managed to pick up a Gamecube with a copy of the Zelda Collector’s Edition.

    The first game I played was LoZ. Why? Because the old soul entrapped in my teenage body wanted to check out the first Zelda. Now, I have to say that I enjoyed myself quite a bit with that little game. Did I like it better than OoT? No. Did I like Wind Waker better than OoT after I played it later that year? No. But you can’t blame this on nostalgia, because I managed to play each of these games in the same year. In fact, you could say that LoZ, OoT, and WW seemed to come right after one another for me. I hardly even considered the gap in time between these games too much. They just seemed like games in a series, with the first being the most primitive and the latest being the most advanced, but with one game in particular being my favorite. Nostalgia caused me to play LoZ for the first time, and it also allowed me to appreciate it for what it was, but it didn’t exactly cloud my view.

    Now, I won’t get into how I later acquired a NES with the Legend of Zelda Gold Edition, nor will I bore you with detailed accounts on how I still managed to enjoy that game as much as I did the first time I played it nearly two years before. All I have to say is this: nostalgia may often cloud someone’s view, but it can also broaden a person’s range of acceptance, thus rendering an older game more acceptable and fun.

    I may have grown up in the era of new-school gamers, but I’ll always be an old-school gamer at heart.

    P.S. I also have Dawn of Souls for GBA, and I’d have to say that the first Final Fantasy is actually pretty fun and challenging, much like LoZ; you can interpret the story in your own way, and the game itself isn’t made easier like today’s games are. I’m still looking for a copy of FFI for NES so I can play it in its original form. That’s just who I am.

    Older Games also have good sides (to people who like to explore the whole area and get used to it) since LoZ and AoL have really big maps, while OoT and TWW don’t really have maps.I enjoy being able to go through the world after I defeat the game, so I can get better used to it, and search out things that can be done now or earlier in the game, and to try out all weapons until it actually gets boring, and yet I could make History-related fanfics from all of my exploration and great imagination (ironically, I hate writing stories, so it would be rare for me to decide to write one down) and nothing gets my interest more than Zelda and Harry Potter.

    alright,I cant remember….when does link talk in oot???

    what does he say

    spikerman said:
    You probably don’t remember Link talking in Ocarina of Time either do you? Yes he did say something without any help from Navi or choice of words……Does anyone remember what he said in Ocarina of Time?

    Zelda asks for Link’s name….and…Link tells her his name.

    kamakaziplumber said:
    By nostalgia, do you mean appreciating things because they were in your past, or appreciating things because they are somewhat antique?

    Well, nostalgia doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s something you played years and years ago; it’s just the memory, no matter how old or new it is.

    I see. Well, there are some great memories connected to LoZ (having played it with a close friend of mine) and OoT (since it was my first Zelda) for me. So I guess I would fit with both definitions of nostalgia. But I will say this: I agree with what was said about people shunning old games just because they’re old. It really is a shame.

    What’s nostalgia (don’t ask why I don’t know.)We have a few subjects here that are just *NAVI’ing* waiting to be handing out award (forgive me) and I found more expensive stuff for prizes (come on folks) we might even have the first 80th Post Triforce Trophy.I’ve gotten a bit farther in AoL (I can get to the special weapon, I just gotta keep from getting killed too much) and maybe I can beat the Second Temple in AoL.I could use some help on how to get to Midoro Palace without getting too much damage.

    I agree with you, kamikaziplumber. It’s truly a shame that some people can’t appreciate the old classics.

    I personally came across the Zelda games about a year after OoT came out, and it absorbed me immediately. To date, I must have beaten it…oh, at least twenty times, with a majority being 100% completions. I got hooked on MM just as easily, and got obsessed with it as well.

    Fact is though, that I’m now in the same boat as Hyrulian Hero. I only recently got my hands on Adventure of Link. Played it a bit, then threw it aside because it was so hard that I honestly couldn’t figure out how to get any farther. About a month ago I picked it up again. I think the reason I came back to it was because the game was actually a challenge.

    That’s my reason for playing the old classics: they’re hard. I haven’t finished AoL yet, but I know that when I do it will give me an enormous sense of accomplishment that I have yet to obtain from any other Zelda. In OoT, my first time playing it I died maybe twice. I’ve never died in any other Zelda game, save ALttP, where I was killed a total of one (1) time. Now comes AoL, where I’ve died over thirty times, and that right there is the challenge that I feel the Zelda games have lost over time and need to regain.

    Maybe TP will give me that sense of challenge again, maybe not. But until we get another hard game, I’ll happily go back and play the old classics, the old challenges. And that’s why people still play them, far as I’m concerned.

    Here’s a good idea, get the Player’s Guide for Twilight Princess, and avoid any upgrades and special treasure unless necessary.Also, avoid any heart pieces and collect heart containers from bosses, so you will only have so many hearts to fight Ganon.As for AoL, I’m trying to get everything because one enemy is hard to beat (especially the goriya and iron knuckles)

    I for one will always enjoy the old school Zelda and Final Fantasy games but not just for nostalgias sake, FF7 and ALTTP actually had pretty awesome stories.

    BTW now that Square-Enix has decided to release FF1-6 on GBA & DS how likely is it that they may release a Bonus Disk for the GameCube or Revolution containing FF7, FF8, FF9 & 10 & 10-2?

    I think some people missed my point - I was in no way at all trying to imply that the older generation Zelda games are better than the newer games or even that I prefer them. I love most of the Zelda series (I don’t really like OoT its overrated and I’ve not played MM or WW, but I adored Oracles and MC), no matter when they were made. I love new games, I love old games. I play a lot of old games, not just Zelda, I was just saying, old games can be as good as new games, just in a different way thats all.

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